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so

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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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welcome back to the power cast chris

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o'brien is not here this week

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and there's a specific reason for that

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and i'll give it to you

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now to give you a background three years

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ago on the power cast we featured

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chris's brother brendan o'brien

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and his girlfriend johnny they together

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ran a business called maya sites travel

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services in fact we liked it so much and

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i was trying to help out chris's brother

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i decided to host

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their site on our server well any case

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brendan was a smart personable guy

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i didn't know him very well i was in

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touch with him occasionally and then i

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learned a few weeks ago as chris has

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expressed on the power cast

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that brendan was diagnosed

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with cancer of the esophagus

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and over a period of three weeks he

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received chemo treatment it seemed i

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guess for a time that he was making

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progress

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and then his prognosis

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became worse

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brendan o'brien died on the 23rd of

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march

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and so we send out our condolences to

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johnny and

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his stepdaughter and of course to chris

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and we're sorry for his loss and chris

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will tell us more when he returns

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about his brother brendan on whom he

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relied a lot obviously for friendship

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and for advice

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brendan o'brien

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this week on the power cast

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we have a guest co-host someone who's

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been on the show before

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kurt collins whom some of you know from

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our forums as century he has been

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presented here as an expert on the cash

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landrum case but he's also i guess the

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moderator or chief cook and bottle

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washer of jimmosly.com that's a site

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that i established

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shortly after jim mosley our favorite

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court jester died

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of by the way cancer of the esophagus

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so he's been running this site ever

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since before we get on with our

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discussions and everything kurt first of

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all welcome back to the show

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thank you about

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jimmosley.com why did you decide you

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wanted to take it over there was a void

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and i i definitely wanted to see jim

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remembered and there were so many things

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that um that he never got around to to

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writing about and a lot of people didn't

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didn't recognize his accomplishments uh

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you know his his reputations for a court

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jester ufology as you say and he did

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like to stir up controversy and and poke

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some fun but he also had a lot of

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serious accomplishments along the way

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you know i know everyone's familiar with

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his work with

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georgia adamski exposing him but even if

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sometimes it was just a matter of being

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a gossip columnist he was always on top

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of what was going on and really did a

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great job of keeping up with the events

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and ufology and

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in a sense served as a social historian

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so uh anyway i liked jim quite a bit and

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i just definitely want to see his

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efforts remembered and his work

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recognized it's jim mosley.com pay a

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visit you will see some of his writings

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you will see biographies of him you'll

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learn about the crazy stunts he pulled

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but also about the very good work he did

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in the ufo field

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and he was useful at times when the

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field was just kind of dead things

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weren't happening and he pulled some of

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these stunts with his friend the late

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grey barker quite often just to keep the

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subject alive

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and we could look at it later on and say

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you know what what right did he have to

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perpetrate these hoaxes didn't he kind

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of muddy the waters and the answer is

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yes he did but he also did a lot of good

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work he also provided social commentary

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and he also made us question

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things we said he poke holes in

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a lot of the things that people said and

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did in the ufo field the site is jim

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mosley.com jimmosley.com and there's a

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contact thing there if you want to get

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in touch with curt or you have

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suggestions about how the site should

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run what kind of content you like he'd

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be glad to hear from you and keep things

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up absolutely and should anyone happen

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to have any great photos particularly

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him with his friend carl flock we'd love

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to have those on the site there's

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there's lots of gaps in the the history

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of the ufo conventions that he put on

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and uh like like to have some more

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coverage of that so yeah i appreciate

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hearing from anyone on that now for many

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years jim was a permanent chairman of

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the national ufo conference that was

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first established back in the mid 60s by

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a couple guys late teens such as rick

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hillberg and alan greenfield now as a

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member of their organizing crew and jim

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got very close to everyone and they made

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him permanent chairman and he kept

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running it in fact in 1967

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one of the biggest ufo events up to that

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time

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occurred in new york city the national

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ufo conference i sponsored one by the

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way in valley forge pennsylvania in 1975

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my first and last attempt so i guess

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we're going to have remembrances because

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this year there's supposed to be a

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reunion later this year of people who

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were involved in the national ufo

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conference

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i think that's going to happen in

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cleveland that's right and it's uh it

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looks to be a more of an informal

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get-together rather than a rigid

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structured conference so it's really a

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chance to to get to know the people and

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share memories and things like that i

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hope to be able to attend but you know i

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definitely anyone that's in the area and

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interested in ufo history this is a

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chance to meet some

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uh living legends or almost living

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legends depending on your point of view

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right i might go there

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i might not i'm really on the fence

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about it right now we'll take a look and

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see i might have to get a donation for a

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plane ticket if i go but we'll see we'll

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make a decision later on that's a

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national ufo conference all this stuff

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you can look up in google all right so

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if you want to find out what it's all

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about you can do it that way let's focus

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a little bit about what's going to

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happen here in just a few moments now

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sometime back we featured james carrion

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who is a former international director

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of the mutual ufo network mufon and he

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had written a book called the rosetta

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deception which made the point that

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the ghost rocket cases of the mid-1940s

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were largely counterintelligence

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activities in part to spook the russians

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that sort of thing and he told us at the

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time he's working on the roswell case

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now since then

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he had a run-in with mufon that i'm

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going to ask him about also supposedly

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the book itself which is now available

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free and i'll tell you where to get a

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copy

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he has revised that book with more

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material so we're certainly interested

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in that and we're certainly interested

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in asking him

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about his new book the roswell deception

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the title obviously conveys the

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impression of what he thinks about

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roswell and this comes at an interesting

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time because of the roswell slides this

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story that they found these two slides

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in an old home

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in arizona near sedona

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why is it always sedona and they

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supposedly depict what might be i say

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might be an alien being kurt if you

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followed this roswell slides stuff more

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than i would uh like to admit but yes i

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have

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for quite a long time i was uh just

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keeping up with the with what little

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news leaked out about it and started

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having a conversation with some friends

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and we uh just started trying to dig up

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the information on it and have sort of

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become a little investigative team of

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our own trying to to check out the

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because there's a num a number of claims

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uh it just seems like this story is um

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was so sketchy without roswell it falls

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apart

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it's almost like the circular logic you

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know a four-year-old say well because

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because

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they found slides of a body well it must

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be a roswell alien

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couldn't be from another spacecraft i

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mean

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there's just there's so many um

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connections that have been made that

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seem to be speculative imaginary uh

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imaginative maybe wishful thinking and

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it just seems unsupported by evidence

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and

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well we can talk about the body too but

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what's your take on it so far

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my take on it is if you really have a

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story to tell

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do what apple incorporated does which is

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don't tell anything

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don't say anything until you have

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the information to present apple doesn't

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tell you about their new products unless

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they have something to demonstrate

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or it fits with their marketing proposal

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which is sometimes a new product and a

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new category comes out and they

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presented six months earlier otherwise

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when they're ready to release it or

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almost then you tell but right now we're

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getting all this

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preliminary nonsense touting what this

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is all about and we haven't seen

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anything yet

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well it's going to happen let's go

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behind the curtain pay for this

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session in mexico city go to mexico city

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to see what's going on i don't know i'm

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still skeptical i think they're trying

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to sell it too much it's what we call in

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the computer business vaporware in any

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case

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we have james carrion coming up next

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with gene steinberg

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and kurt collins

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with gene and with kurt you're in the

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first game attack of the rockoids and it

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was a critically acclaimed success and

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now there is the coming of the

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protectors a former military

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intelligence man is contacted by a space

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woman in a dream a dream that turns out

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to be a nightmare because evil forces on

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her distant planet are planning to

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conquer the earth this is gripping

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science fiction of the classic kind

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attack of the rockoids and the coming of

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the protectors find out more at

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rockoaids.com that's rockoids

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r-o-c-k-o-i-d-s dot com

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so here's what happened i was placing an

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order online the site went down it took

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hours before it returned but i'd already

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placed the order with another company if

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your site goes down you could lose

277
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business and if you have a business or

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easy to run and it will stay online at

280
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iweb your site is hosted on one of the

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most reliable networks in the world talk

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to a sales rep at iweb.com use the promo

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code tech night owl for a special

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friends this is alex jones for

286
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midasresources.com

287
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for more than 15 years i have

288
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exclusively used midas resources for all

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bullion or collectibles you're looking

291
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for midas resources is simply the best i

292
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own my gold as a hedge against inflation

293
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this federal reserve fiat currency could

294
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go the way of the deutsche mark and the

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weimar republic anytime in these

296
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historically dangerous times it makes

297
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sense to physically hold gold and silver

298
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midas already has some of the best deals

299
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in the industry but if you give them a

300
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call and mention the radio special they

301
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will give you a list of the day's super

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have a lot of 800-686-2237

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again that's 800-686-2237

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the genesis communications network is

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thousands of people who are just as

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advertise at gcnlive.com easy affordable

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336
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extendovite i would like to thank you

337
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don for making my job so much easier

338
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because your products just make it so

339
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simple right to fool around with a lot

340
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of exotic things that don't work we can

341
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just put them on your product and things

342
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what it's doing there's so much garlic

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in there that has a yeast killing effect

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the yeast is a big problem in the gut

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pushes the liver hard it also has metal

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351
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[Music]

360
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

361
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comment or question about the paracast

362
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:09,600
send it to news the paracast.com

363
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,800
that's news at the paracast.com

364
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:14,639
and don't forget to visit our famous

365
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paracast community forums at

366
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:23,829
so this week we have kurt collins

367
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:26,160
joining us as our guest co-host chris

368
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,880
o'brien is mourning the passing of his

369
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:30,480
brother brendan o'brien he'll be back

370
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:32,320
next week let me tell you before we

371
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,519
continue with our guest james carrion

372
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:37,680
we have a place we want you to visit

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it's called plus.theparacast.com

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and that's where you learn more about

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a couple of things right now we offer

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after the powercast which is kind of an

379
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extension of this show where we do color

380
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commentary and talk about a lot of other

381
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things so we give that free two

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subscribers to

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the power cast plus it's the only way to

384
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get a copy we also offer a special

385
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version of the show

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higher quality audio with 41 minutes of

387
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those network ads taken out so those of

388
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you who say get rid of the ads well you

389
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know they're needed in commercial radio

390
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but if you want to be without the ads

391
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you could get powercast plus for a

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modest monthly or annual subscription

393
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rate and we're also giving away one more

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395
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copy of chris o'brien stalking the

396
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tricksters

397
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was sent to you if you subscribe for one

398
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year or five years

399
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plus.powercast.com plus.powercast.com

400
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:48,399
now not so long ago we had a very

401
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:50,880
exciting interview with james carrion

402
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:53,519
who's been a long time researcher into

403
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:54,880
ufos

404
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,800
about his book called the rosetta

405
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:58,320
deception

406
00:16:01,829 --> 00:16:00,240
about counter-intelligence activities

407
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,839
related to the ghost rockets of the

408
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,440
1940s

409
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:05,040
and for those of you who

410
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:06,639
haven't followed what's going on here

411
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:08,639
because it's a very involved subject

412
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:11,040
james welcome back to the power cast but

413
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:12,720
please tell our listeners how you got

414
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:16,240
involved in ufos and how you became

415
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:18,959
international director of mufon

416
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:20,720
that's a story in itself

417
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,079
absolutely and thank you for having me

418
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:24,320
on gene you know my history with ufology

419
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:27,759
and ufos goes back to a very young age

420
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:30,959
when i was 11 years old my my mother

421
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:32,320
actually subscribed to a number of

422
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:34,079
tabloid magazines

423
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:37,120
and of course front page news was aliens

424
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,160
and flying saucers and so you know that

425
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:42,480
sort of sparked my interest so i started

426
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,480
clipping those articles and keeping them

427
00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:46,720
and trying to research as i was growing

428
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:49,120
up it wasn't until i moved to

429
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:50,480
colorado though that i actually got

430
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:52,800
involved with mufon and that was back in

431
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:55,759
1996 i actually traveled down to roswell

432
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:58,480
new mexico for their anniversary in 97

433
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,160
that's where i first saw stanton freeman

434
00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:02,880
speak for example so you know early on i

435
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:05,039
had this this real keen interest in the

436
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:07,760
field and the subject and fortunately

437
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:10,480
mufon moved to uh denver

438
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:12,559
and i got to know john schussler and

439
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:14,559
volunteered at the office down there

440
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:16,720
uh and eventually ended up on their

441
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:18,640
board of directors before

442
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:20,720
i was elected as the mufon national

443
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:23,439
director in 2006.

444
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:25,919
now i wanted to clarify that so the

445
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:29,360
process of becoming director of mufon

446
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,200
was democratic in the sense that the

447
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:33,520
board would elect that person is that

448
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:35,760
true now honestly i can't tell you what

449
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:38,160
the election process is right now it was

450
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:40,400
democratic uh back when

451
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:43,760
um i was elected it probably is as now

452
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:45,520
it is now as well i'm not i'm not really

453
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:46,799
sure

454
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,200
okay obviously you had a falling out

455
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:51,280
at one point you were no longer director

456
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:53,600
what happened so actually i had already

457
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:55,520
made the decision to leave mufon i had

458
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:57,919
given them notice uh that i would soon

459
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:59,360
be leaving because i had other interests

460
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:00,640
to pursue

461
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:03,120
including the research that i've done

462
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:05,200
and so it was actually at the end of my

463
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:07,120
term but it was also at the same time

464
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:07,919
that

465
00:18:12,549 --> 00:18:11,200
mufon had a contract with bigelow

466
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:12,559
aerospace

467
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:13,440
and

468
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,640
uh after i found some disturbing things

469
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:18,480
about that relationship

470
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:20,400
uh and about uh

471
00:18:25,029 --> 00:18:22,960
the skinwalker ranch out in utah and i

472
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:25,039
voiced my concerns to the board and

473
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,200
about where what the funding sources

474
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:29,760
were uh you know where where bigelow was

475
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:31,280
getting the money that was passing into

476
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:32,640
mufan's hands

477
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:34,720
uh the board elected to go behind my

478
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:35,600
back

479
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:37,360
and to try to smooth things over with

480
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:39,200
bigelow and when i found out about that

481
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:41,039
i resigned immediately

482
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:42,799
now what were your concerns

483
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:45,039
my my concerns were that you know

484
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:46,880
bigelow aerospace claims that they were

485
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:49,679
interested in ufology and in ufos to try

486
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:52,480
to exploit it in terms of aerospace

487
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:54,320
technology they were looking to

488
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:55,840
investigate the subject to figure out if

489
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:57,200
they could somehow

490
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,280
come up with some crazy new propulsion

491
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,360
system for example based on observations

492
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:03,760
or or the investigation so they hired

493
00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:05,039
mufon to go out and do these

494
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:07,039
investigations for them there was a lot

495
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:09,360
of money that was spent

496
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:11,200
uh the thing that sort of sort of

497
00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:13,280
worried me early on was that

498
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:15,760
uh bigelow would never reveal where the

499
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:18,320
funding came from it wasn't his money it

500
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:21,280
wasn't uh or he claimed he had sponsors

501
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:23,120
but he would only be he was only willing

502
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,679
to reveal those sponsor names to john

503
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,360
schussler so there was sort of this

504
00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:29,919
gatekeeper mentality already going in

505
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:31,840
and that worried me but then when i went

506
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,919
out to the skinwalker ranch

507
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:35,760
and tried to do some investigation of my

508
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:37,039
own and was

509
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:40,000
refused entering onto the ranch and then

510
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:41,520
talking with some of the folks that

511
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:43,120
worked on the ranch

512
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:45,120
found out that there was a tie-in with

513
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:48,080
the bob lazar story and some of the

514
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:51,280
mythology that was coming out of area 51

515
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:53,120
being promoted by uh some of the

516
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:55,200
scientists involved with nids

517
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:58,000
uh all that together just sort of

518
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,679
uh crystallized for me that there was

519
00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:01,200
something more going on here that there

520
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:02,160
was

521
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,280
voiced this to the to the board and said

522
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:11,280
we really need to reconsider our

523
00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:13,760
relationship here uh they they decided

524
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:15,520
to go otherwise and and follow the

525
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:18,000
dollar is that what it's all about

526
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:20,240
because there's now this hanger one tv

527
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:21,600
reality show

528
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:24,400
and i assume to use a mufon's name

529
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:26,320
they're getting a paycheck

530
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:28,080
honestly i don't know

531
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:30,159
how much they're getting paid by history

532
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:31,280
channel or

533
00:20:33,830 --> 00:20:32,480
uh

534
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,840
i don't think there's probably a large

535
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:35,360
amount of money passing into mufon's

536
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:36,640
hands right now

537
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:38,480
as because of the show i think they're

538
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:40,159
they're probably using it more for pr

539
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:42,240
advantage uh the more they get their

540
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:44,320
name out there the more people see the

541
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,760
name the more people that join up as

542
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:47,520
members and go to their conferences and

543
00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:50,000
buy their merchandise so i think it's

544
00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:53,200
more for a pr strategy more than just uh

545
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:55,360
about getting a paycheck from from a

546
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:56,640
cable channel

547
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:58,640
now in general though the hanger one

548
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:01,200
show has gotten miserable reviews

549
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,360
because they're not presenting accurate

550
00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:05,280
information about ufos they're making

551
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:08,240
things up they have faked documents or

552
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:11,679
they exaggerate things so how do you get

553
00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:14,960
by claiming to be a responsible ufo

554
00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:17,760
research organization but then you allow

555
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:20,000
this to have your name to carry your

556
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,640
name to represent your image

557
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:24,720
exactly it's my point uh

558
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:26,720
i had actually an interesting discussion

559
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:29,600
over facebook with one of their

560
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:32,000
directors of investigation about this

561
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:32,799
and

562
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:34,960
you know in the conversation

563
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:37,520
we were going back and forth about okay

564
00:21:42,830 --> 00:21:39,919
how much has hanger one hurt mufon's

565
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:42,840
reputation and this person who i won't

566
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,200
name basically said oh it hasn't hurt us

567
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:46,960
at all we're doing great you know we've

568
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:48,400
got more interest from scientists than

569
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,919
we've had in years

570
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:51,200
and of course when i press them for

571
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:53,679
details what scientists uh you know i

572
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:56,000
get this oh big name scientists but they

573
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:57,600
don't want to have their name revealed

574
00:22:01,510 --> 00:21:59,520
publicly because of the ridicule factor

575
00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:01,520
of ufos and the more i thought about

576
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:02,960
that i thought wow that's just a double

577
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:04,960
standard you know how can you tell me

578
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:06,159
you're not hurt

579
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:08,720
by having you know such ridiculous shows

580
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:11,280
that that push mythology but then you're

581
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:13,200
telling me that you have science and

582
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:15,280
corporations backing you that refuse to

583
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:17,039
publicly reveal their names behind you

584
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:18,799
know that support that simply doesn't

585
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:21,360
make any sense

586
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:23,760
now you also had tried to get involved

587
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:26,720
in a dialogue on facebook with mufon and

588
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:28,240
it kind of shut you down i'm going to

589
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:30,159
ask you about that in our next segment

590
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:32,799
we have james carrion his current book

591
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:35,280
is the rosetta deception but a roswell

592
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:37,679
deceptions under construction a lot more

593
00:22:46,730 --> 00:22:40,559
to come with gene and our guest co-host

594
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:48,149
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hi this is don ecker and you are tuned

699
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:05,679
in to

700
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:07,279
let me tell you what you're going to

701
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:10,400
hear stuff here that you probably won't

702
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:13,279
hear anywhere else hear that george

703
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:15,120
snorri

704
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:17,039
kurt collins is joining us as guest

705
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:19,120
co-host i'm gene steinberg we've got

706
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:22,000
james carrion here his book is the

707
00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:23,520
rosetta deception

708
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:25,279
he's working on a roswell book but we're

709
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:27,520
talking now about the problems of his

710
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,720
past relationship with mufon a former

711
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,640
international director actually former

712
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:34,080
national director or international

713
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:36,799
director i get confused over the titles

714
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:39,840
international director okay so what i

715
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:41,679
heard here what i saw is that you

716
00:27:45,269 --> 00:27:43,039
apparently

717
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:45,279
were trying to set up a discussion

718
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:48,320
in mufon's facebook account and it's

719
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:49,919
supposed to be an open discussion about

720
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:52,640
ufos i gather but they shut you down

721
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:53,919
yeah let me let me tell you how it

722
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,279
happened here

723
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:57,360
basically i posted a message

724
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,640
that said

725
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:00,960
mufon should really change their model

726
00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:03,120
currently their motto is the scientific

727
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:05,679
investigation of ufos for the benefit of

728
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:08,640
humanity and i thought based on season

729
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:11,360
one of hanger one and and how poorly

730
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:13,039
they've they've actually presented

731
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:15,600
science uh or ufology in terms of

732
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:16,480
science

733
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,000
that they should change their model to

734
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:20,000
the pseudoscientific investigation of

735
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:22,240
ufos for the benefit of hollywood

736
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:23,600
because apparently the only one who's

737
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:25,919
benefiting from hanger one right now are

738
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:27,600
is the audience uh history channel

739
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:30,080
audience who who tend to flock to these

740
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:32,559
shows looking for the mysterious uh and

741
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:35,360
looking for more uh you know anything

742
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:37,360
that's sensational and and the thing

743
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:40,320
that that really irks me about uh shows

744
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:43,600
like hanger one or ancient aliens or any

745
00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:45,120
of these other shows out there that have

746
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:47,360
a huge following you end up after

747
00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:49,520
watching one of these shows having more

748
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,440
uh questions and answers it's always

749
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:53,440
that frustrating feeling of nothing ever

750
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:54,880
got resolved here i never really

751
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:56,799
received any good information that told

752
00:29:02,310 --> 00:28:59,919
me what's going on and and sadly enough

753
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:02,320
mufon has decided to to follow in those

754
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:04,720
footsteps so the interesting thing is

755
00:29:08,789 --> 00:29:07,120
when i posted this message it requires

756
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:08,799
moderation and somebody has to actually

757
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:10,080
approve before it gets posted to the

758
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,120
forum and lo and behold it was approved

759
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:15,600
uh by one of the moderators there's two

760
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:17,840
main moderators on the forum well the

761
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:19,919
other moderator took exception to me

762
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:21,919
posting and decided to confront me about

763
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:24,720
it and that tit for tat which you can

764
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:27,120
read online basically ended up in and

765
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,520
having my posts removed immediately so i

766
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,520
was basically censored on their forum

767
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:33,840
did they say anything to you or just did

768
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:36,480
behind the scenes oh no it was it was a

769
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:38,720
mid-step i was in i was actually about

770
00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:41,360
to post a final message when facebook

771
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:42,960
aired out and said oh you can't post

772
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:45,120
this message is no longer available so

773
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:46,799
it was removed while i was in the

774
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:48,960
process of posting so you can't post

775
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:50,320
again in their

776
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,399
facebook area oh no i don't i don't

777
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:54,240
think i was banned from posting it's

778
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:56,799
just that particular message thread was

779
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:58,880
censored and banned did you write them

780
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:00,720
and say what the heck are you doing

781
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,360
absolutely and then i heard after this

782
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:05,520
is after i posted my article online then

783
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,720
i heard from the

784
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,399
from the moderator that i didn't have

785
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:10,720
this tit for tat she was apologetic and

786
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:12,000
said oh you know really you should

787
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:15,120
repost it repost it and we'll be glad to

788
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:16,960
accept it and and my feeling is you know

789
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:19,360
what too little too late uh mufon should

790
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:21,760
incur this bad publicity because this is

791
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:24,000
simply no way to run an organization

792
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:26,960
this subject is so muddied it's so dirty

793
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:29,360
there's so much bad information floating

794
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,600
around and the last thing any

795
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:33,440
organization that promotes truth and

796
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:35,679
science and investigation should be

797
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:38,080
doing is trying to censor the sensor any

798
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:40,080
level of communication or any level of

799
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:41,200
dialogue

800
00:30:44,549 --> 00:30:42,399
they should you know it should be

801
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:44,559
transparency to the hilt and and that's

802
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:45,840
one of the things that i've noticed is

803
00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:48,240
since i've left mufon is that trend the

804
00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:50,640
transparency that organization simply is

805
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:52,880
non-existent well is it a case of

806
00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:54,720
everything going in and nothing coming

807
00:30:59,669 --> 00:30:56,720
out what level of information can you

808
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,679
get from the publication the mufon

809
00:31:04,389 --> 00:31:02,159
journal and online well they they do

810
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:04,399
publish a number of their cases in the

811
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:06,799
journal their monthly journal and and

812
00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:09,200
when you submit for example a case

813
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,240
online

814
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:12,480
uh some ufo sighting that you have you

815
00:31:17,510 --> 00:31:15,440
can actually get data back in terms of

816
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:17,520
you know getting statistics and finding

817
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,200
out what some of the top cases are and

818
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,120
where they're located and actually

819
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,360
that's not even uh you know my beef with

820
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:25,440
mufon when i when i talk about data in

821
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:28,159
and no data out what i consider no data

822
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:29,600
out is simply

823
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:31,200
there is no

824
00:31:35,669 --> 00:31:33,120
research being done there's no proper

825
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:35,679
research being done so mufon always had

826
00:31:39,669 --> 00:31:37,679
this reputation of give us your

827
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:39,679
information we'll do something with it

828
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,120
well actually nothing's done with it

829
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:43,120
they've collected data for over 40

830
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:44,320
something years

831
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,480
and they can't even form a hypothesis

832
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:48,559
about what they think is going on or any

833
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:50,640
conclusions about what's going on and

834
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:52,559
and they always pay lip service to

835
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:54,640
science saying we have this science

836
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:55,840
board and we have all these top

837
00:32:00,310 --> 00:31:58,480
scientists working with us with phds and

838
00:32:01,909 --> 00:32:00,320
they're highly credentialed folks but

839
00:32:03,269 --> 00:32:01,919
what are they doing they have they

840
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:03,279
haven't done anything they haven't done

841
00:32:07,110 --> 00:32:05,200
anything with the data uh they haven't

842
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:07,120
been able to publish any research

843
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:09,840
studies and then when this is brought to

844
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:11,519
mufon's attention then all of a sudden

845
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,840
we get folks in the organization saying

846
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:15,600
oh we're doing it right now well we're

847
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:17,360
signing up new scientists

848
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,960
we have these great ideas we have these

849
00:32:23,669 --> 00:32:21,039
great research projects and i'm thinking

850
00:32:25,669 --> 00:32:23,679
well that's great so let's let's wait

851
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,679
and see what the results are but what

852
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:27,120
about the data that's been collected for

853
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:29,200
the last 40 something years who is

854
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:31,200
looking at that who is actually doing

855
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:32,399
anything with that

856
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:37,360
i seriously doubt it i've got friends on

857
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:39,760
both sides of this issue and and james

858
00:32:43,590 --> 00:32:41,519
some want to give you a bouquet and some

859
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:43,600
are ready to throw rotten fruit at you

860
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:44,320
so

861
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:45,200
i just

862
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:47,840
wanted to ask um one thing about the the

863
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:49,679
television show which i think i dislike

864
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,240
more than you do i think that uh i don't

865
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:54,240
want to forgive them for it but isn't it

866
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:57,120
a bit like an author who sells his uh

867
00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:59,919
his uh book rights and a bad movie gets

868
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:01,679
made out of it i mean they they can't be

869
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:03,760
blamed for everything that the producers

870
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:05,200
do you know i actually would tend to

871
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,039
disagree with that when i actually did a

872
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:09,200
show for the discovery channel called

873
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:11,760
ufos over earth i made sure that when we

874
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:13,360
wrote up the contract for that that we

875
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:15,039
had some discretion on how the show was

876
00:33:19,029 --> 00:33:17,840
going to be produced and how mufon would

877
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:19,039
be portrayed

878
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:20,000
so

879
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,399
if it's negotiated properly you don't

880
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:26,480
just let the media run over you just

881
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:28,799
because they you know it's their channel

882
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:30,080
it's it's still your intellectual

883
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:32,240
property it's still your organization if

884
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:33,440
you want your organization to be

885
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:35,120
portrayed accurately

886
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:36,720
then go out and grab you know one of

887
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:38,480
your members who's a who's a lawyer who

888
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,760
can actually negotiate this on your

889
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:41,360
behalf so it sounds like they just went

890
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:42,720
in and they were so

891
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:44,640
giddy over the fact that they got this

892
00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:46,159
show that they signed the dotted line

893
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:48,320
didn't read the fine print and and now

894
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:50,000
they try to should blame the the

895
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:52,080
producers about what's what the product

896
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:53,519
is and i just don't buy that well

897
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,360
hollywood agreements in general have

898
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:58,000
hidden traps we're not so hidden traps i

899
00:34:02,149 --> 00:33:59,440
mean it's part and parcel of the

900
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:02,159
industry for even famous entertainers

901
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:04,880
producers directors to sue the movie

902
00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:08,000
companies or the tv production companies

903
00:34:12,869 --> 00:34:11,119
right and it's also an option to to opt

904
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:12,879
out of any further production so they've

905
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:15,040
signed up for season two obviously they

906
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:17,119
don't see anything wrong with season one

907
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:19,119
but i have a i have a big problem with

908
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:21,679
season one season one and and i'm i'm

909
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:23,440
really anxious to see how season two is

910
00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:24,879
going to turn out and what their future

911
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:27,119
episodes are gonna be about but season

912
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:29,280
one it has been nothing more than

913
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:31,760
mythology making or mythology promoting

914
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:33,040
i should say because they've

915
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:35,119
regurgitated all of the mythology that's

916
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:37,040
out there and it really doesn't portray

917
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:40,320
a mufon in any scientific light at all

918
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:41,919
it really actually is very embarrassing

919
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:44,480
i i said this on the forum uh i i refuse

920
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:46,800
to let my 11 year old son watch hanger

921
00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:48,560
one because i'm too embarrassed to have

922
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,320
to tell them hey i was the director of

923
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:52,560
this organization not too long ago

924
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,320
it's that embarrassing to me about a

925
00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:56,159
valinu director i wanted to ask you

926
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:57,599
about that now you were talking about

927
00:35:01,030 --> 00:35:00,079
the flow of information i just wanted to

928
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:01,040
know

929
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:03,280
what differences from uh from your

930
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:05,599
tenure to what you're seeing now where

931
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:07,839
it was there um i know you had some

932
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:10,000
projects the project pandora where you

933
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,160
were scanning newfound documents

934
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:14,240
and some of those became available

935
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:16,400
temporarily on the black vault what were

936
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:18,320
you trying to do and how is it different

937
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:20,160
from what's happening now

938
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:22,000
well when i started up project pandora

939
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:24,000
the goal of project pandora was to scan

940
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:25,520
all of mufon's

941
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:27,599
paper case files and to make them

942
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:29,359
available to researchers

943
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:30,560
so they have been scanned they were

944
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,480
scanned under my tenure

945
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,560
and they were there were multiple copies

946
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:36,160
out there each board member for example

947
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:38,240
has a complete copy of all of those

948
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:40,000
files but

949
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:41,839
i haven't seen or the board was never

950
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:43,839
willing to actually

951
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:46,960
let them be used freely there was always

952
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:49,440
this idea of oh we can sell access to

953
00:35:54,710 --> 00:35:52,640
our files either to researchers or to

954
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:54,720
corporations so there was always this

955
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:56,960
thought of there's a money angle behind

956
00:36:01,670 --> 00:35:59,760
it so in terms of freely releasing the

957
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:01,680
information to the public you know you

958
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:03,760
have to get past the board first and and

959
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:05,200
the board's never been really willing to

960
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:06,320
do that

961
00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:07,839
i don't know if they are if they are

962
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:11,119
more open-minded now about that but that

963
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,560
that information should be out there it

964
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:14,400
should be available to anybody who who's

965
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:16,160
a serious ufo researcher just to the

966
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:18,000
public in general i understand that

967
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:19,920
there's uh privacy information or

968
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:21,680
privacy concerns because there's witness

969
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:24,480
information in there but if you know if

970
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:26,160
we look back at the

971
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:27,839
you know any legal

972
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:29,920
obligations mufon has in terms of

973
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:32,480
privacy there are very old case files

974
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:34,079
that that simply i don't think applies

975
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,760
anymore and that information should be

976
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:37,599
freely made available we have more to

977
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:39,839
come with james carrion i'm gene

978
00:36:46,610 --> 00:36:42,160
steinberg he's kurt collins you're in

979
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:47,829
[Music]

980
00:36:53,670 --> 00:36:50,960
a little right a little laugh but always

981
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:53,680
independent minded the genesis

982
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:58,000
communications network gcn

983
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:00,079
attack of the rockoids has been well

984
00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:02,400
received by critics and readers alike

985
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:04,000
it's a thrill-a-minute story you'll

986
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:05,359
never forget

987
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:07,280
a former us military intelligence

988
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:09,760
officer is haunted by intense dreams

989
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:12,320
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

990
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:14,720
help after a terrible battle in outer

991
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:15,760
space

992
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:17,920
but the dreams turn out to be true and

993
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:19,920
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

994
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:22,640
with a woman whose far away planet is

995
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:25,040
intent on destroying the earth

996
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:27,520
and now the gripping tale continues in

997
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:30,000
the coming of the protectors it's the

998
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:32,560
second book of the rockoids trilogy a

999
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:34,800
galaxy spanning adventure that pits our

1000
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:37,040
hapless heroes against powerful

1001
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:39,280
fanatical enemies that threaten the

1002
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:41,200
lives of freedom-loving beings

1003
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:42,400
everywhere

1004
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:45,040
attack of the rochoids and the coming of

1005
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,079
the protectors classic science fiction

1006
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:50,480
at its best available now

1007
00:37:56,190 --> 00:37:53,680
for more details visit rocoids.com

1008
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:56,200
that's rock

1009
00:38:01,510 --> 00:37:59,280
oids.com if the irs has garnished your

1010
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,520
paycheck or seized money from your bank

1011
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:03,599
account you need to get professional tax

1012
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:06,160
help now fast action is required to put

1013
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:07,839
a halt to these aggressive irs

1014
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:09,920
collection tactics you can count on the

1015
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:11,839
knowledgeable team of tax professionals

1016
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:14,000
at wall and associates with over 30

1017
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:16,079
years of experience wall and associates

1018
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:17,760
has settled the tax problems of

1019
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:19,839
thousands of taxpayers for a small

1020
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:22,000
fraction of what they owed for a free

1021
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:23,760
face-to-face consultation call

1022
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:26,640
1-800-425-4610

1023
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:28,960
to put a wall between you and the irs

1024
00:38:33,150 --> 00:38:31,520
1-800-425-4610

1025
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:33,160
or look for us on the web at

1026
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:35,440
wallandassociates.net we solve tax

1027
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,680
problems if you hire wall and associates

1028
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:39,359
today you'll never have to talk to the

1029
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:42,079
irs again to stop the levies and

1030
00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:45,200
seizures today take action now call wall

1031
00:38:52,349 --> 00:38:48,880
and associates at 1-800-425-4610

1032
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:54,470
1-800-425-4610 based on actual cases

1033
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:56,000
results may vary not a solicitation for

1034
00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:01,030
don't services about your cable bill

1035
00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:03,280
going up and up and up do something

1036
00:39:06,510 --> 00:39:05,200
about it grab a pencil and jot down this

1037
00:39:09,829 --> 00:39:06,520
special number

1038
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,839
1-855-905 my tv the more cable tv rates

1039
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:11,920
go up the better digital satellite tv

1040
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:14,400
looks say goodbye to the cable guy and

1041
00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:15,839
get more of your favorite channels in

1042
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,560
100 digital quality for less money call

1043
00:39:22,470 --> 00:39:20,320
1-855-905

1044
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,480
my tv sign up for packages starting as

1045
00:39:27,829 --> 00:39:24,720
low as 19.99 and there's no equipment to

1046
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:27,839
buy you get free hdtv upgrade a free dvr

1047
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:29,280
upgrade and free professional

1048
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:31,680
installation you control what you watch

1049
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:33,680
when you watch it record your favorite

1050
00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:36,720
shows pause and rewind live tv even skip

1051
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:39,200
the commercials watch local channels too

1052
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:41,839
at just 19.99 what are you waiting for

1053
00:39:44,430 --> 00:39:43,760
pull out your major credit or debit card

1054
00:39:46,750 --> 00:39:44,440
call

1055
00:39:49,109 --> 00:39:46,760
1-855-905 mytv

1056
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:49,119
1-855-905 my tv

1057
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:51,760
say goodbye to the cable guy cut costs

1058
00:40:00,310 --> 00:39:54,560
and get more 1-855-905

1059
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,470
this alert just came in this special

1060
00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:04,480
announcement is for business owners and

1061
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:06,560
leaders of organizations who've been

1062
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:09,359
waiting for the right time to build

1063
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:11,359
general steel has made it impossible to

1064
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,359
wait any longer with rock bottom prices

1065
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:15,520
that could save you thousands that's

1066
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:17,760
right general steele america's leader in

1067
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:19,920
pre-engineered structures is offering

1068
00:40:24,310 --> 00:40:21,839
buildings at prices you will never see

1069
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:24,320
again don't miss these prices a 50 by

1070
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:27,680
100 for 35 000 you heard right that's 5

1071
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:30,640
000 square feet for 35 000 manufacturers

1072
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:32,640
if you need a larger building try a 100

1073
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:35,839
by 100 commercial building for 129 000.

1074
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:37,280
you can't afford to rent with these

1075
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:39,760
prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot church

1076
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:42,000
building for under 69 000

1077
00:40:46,310 --> 00:40:44,079
with the economy improving and interest

1078
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:46,320
rates still at historic lows you can't

1079
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:50,480
afford to wait so call 866 91 steel lock

1080
00:41:00,220 --> 00:40:54,400
in your price now call 866 91 steel

1081
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:05,030
[Music]

1082
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:07,359
this is 866-917-8335 7 the author of ufo

1083
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:09,119
mysteries and you're listening to the

1084
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:10,210
paracast

1085
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:13,280
[Music]

1086
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:15,920
kurt collins is our guest co-host chris

1087
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:18,079
o'brien will be back next week he is

1088
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:20,000
mourning this week the death of his

1089
00:41:25,270 --> 00:41:23,119
brother brendan o'brien someone whom i

1090
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:25,280
talked to once when he was on the power

1091
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:27,839
cast really wonderful guy and he left us

1092
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,000
on the 23rd of march james carrion is

1093
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:32,000
here we've been talking very much here

1094
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:32,960
about

1095
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:34,960
james connection with mufon as

1096
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:36,800
international director

1097
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,760
about

1098
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:40,000
the problems he's had with them and also

1099
00:41:44,550 --> 00:41:42,720
this new tv show hanger one going into

1100
00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:44,560
its second season one of these reality

1101
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:47,839
shows and you wonder james about reality

1102
00:41:51,750 --> 00:41:50,000
shows in general the people who watch

1103
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:51,760
them they're not really interested in

1104
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:54,400
getting scientific information it's just

1105
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:57,359
entertainment it's like survivor well it

1106
00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:58,960
is entertainment i mean absolutely i

1107
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:00,640
mean there's a reason why these shows

1108
00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:02,640
are out there and they proliferate

1109
00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:04,160
and and that's understandable people

1110
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:06,319
like to be entertained but there's also

1111
00:42:11,349 --> 00:42:08,880
a serious side to it i mean you know

1112
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:11,359
let's face it if mufon has a serious

1113
00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:13,520
mission then they need to portray that

1114
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:15,839
seriously even if it's on a show that's

1115
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:17,599
meant to entertain you well

1116
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:19,920
unfortunately producers don't have that

1117
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:22,000
in mind i think there's a feeling that

1118
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:22,800
even

1119
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:24,480
so-called legitimate

1120
00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:26,000
news shows

1121
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:27,839
are doing things for the entertainment

1122
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:29,760
value the ratings value

1123
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:32,079
selling ads not so much to convey

1124
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,839
legitimate news

1125
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:35,359
but you know let's take for example

1126
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,560
other shows out there let's take for

1127
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:38,319
example the show cops

1128
00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:40,640
you know when we're seeing real real

1129
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:43,200
policemen doing a real job doing real

1130
00:42:48,069 --> 00:42:45,200
investigations catching real you know

1131
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:48,079
criminals they don't have to portray

1132
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:50,240
their work as something else to try to

1133
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:51,839
boost the ratings or try to entertain

1134
00:42:55,430 --> 00:42:53,359
them there's there's an entertainment

1135
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:55,440
value there but it portrays what they do

1136
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:58,400
real life you know this hanger one uh

1137
00:43:02,550 --> 00:43:00,000
season one of hanger one doesn't show

1138
00:43:05,109 --> 00:43:02,560
what mufon does you know as

1139
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:05,119
allegedly serious investigation and you

1140
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:06,880
know a lot of like i said was mythology

1141
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:09,359
promoting season two may be different

1142
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:11,040
but the bottom line is that you have to

1143
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:12,800
have some accuracy there some part some

1144
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:14,800
accurate portrayal of what you're about

1145
00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:16,319
and putting talking heads on there that

1146
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:18,160
are green you know about underground

1147
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:19,599
nazi bases

1148
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:23,040
uh or you know just ridiculous things is

1149
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:24,880
is not going to

1150
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:27,520
assign mufon any sort of scientific

1151
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,920
reputation where somebody who casually

1152
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,599
is watching the show maybe maybe for

1153
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:33,359
entertainment value but who has a

1154
00:43:37,030 --> 00:43:34,960
scientific background is going to want

1155
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:37,040
to lend their name to that

1156
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:39,280
oh it's a missed opportunity i i've

1157
00:43:43,750 --> 00:43:40,720
talked to some people that are involved

1158
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:43,760
on the show and in fact the show

1159
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:46,000
checked with me on access on how to get

1160
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:48,880
pictures from the cash landrum case

1161
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:52,240
and as james succeeded james

1162
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:53,440
john

1163
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:55,520
uh someone in mufon should know how to

1164
00:44:00,069 --> 00:43:57,520
get in touch with john schussler about

1165
00:44:02,470 --> 00:44:00,079
pictures and case information for this

1166
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:02,480
case that was the signature mufon case

1167
00:44:06,790 --> 00:44:04,720
for some time and it was just it just

1168
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,800
goes to show how poorly coordinated this

1169
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:08,960
is that the show researchers aren't

1170
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:11,040
going to move on for their story files

1171
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:13,359
and and one one example

1172
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:15,599
is uh one of the season one episodes was

1173
00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:19,520
based on an internet rumor some barstow

1174
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:22,160
ufo case was supposedly a landing in a

1175
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:24,560
men in black surrounding the area and

1176
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:26,960
that was all based on a post on the

1177
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:29,200
internet for i'm not a if there was ever

1178
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:31,280
a mufon case file i could never locate

1179
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:33,119
it so some of this was in like the

1180
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:35,359
jackie gleason thing where president

1181
00:44:40,230 --> 00:44:38,400
nixon took him to see a a frozen alien

1182
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:40,240
that was uh that was a national enquirer

1183
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:43,280
story so the uh now supposedly they're

1184
00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:45,680
going to stick with mufon cases in

1185
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:49,520
season two but i've seen the show titles

1186
00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:52,240
and my hopes are not high for it but i

1187
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:53,760
think the show is

1188
00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:56,800
a big missed opportunity but i want to

1189
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:57,680
change

1190
00:45:01,190 --> 00:45:00,079
the subject here a little bit

1191
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:01,200
i think

1192
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:03,280
you know mufon has the problems but i

1193
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:06,000
think ufology as a whole has its

1194
00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:09,920
problems and and sometimes mufon gets

1195
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:11,359
blamed for just what's wrong with

1196
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:13,599
ufology and it's not exactly the same

1197
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:14,560
thing

1198
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:16,560
well i would agree i mean mufon is an

1199
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:18,079
organization they've been around a long

1200
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:20,720
time you know they are

1201
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:22,480
the successors to the organizations that

1202
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:25,920
are no longer around like nycap and apro

1203
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:28,480
and so as an organization uh they have

1204
00:45:31,349 --> 00:45:30,240
their own issues as any organization

1205
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:31,359
does

1206
00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:33,200
ufology in general though that's a whole

1207
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:35,599
different story you know honestly i i

1208
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:38,240
can't even describe uh in a nutshell

1209
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:41,760
what ufology is because currently it's

1210
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:44,720
it's filled with everyone who claims uh

1211
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:47,440
that they have some either some insight

1212
00:45:53,030 --> 00:45:50,880
or they have some special knowledge or

1213
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:53,040
special investigation they've done or

1214
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:55,359
some special evidence every anybody can

1215
00:45:59,589 --> 00:45:57,680
call themselves a ufologist and but

1216
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:59,599
where where's the serious ufology at

1217
00:46:02,470 --> 00:46:01,119
where are the where are those folks that

1218
00:46:04,630 --> 00:46:02,480
get together and they want to actually

1219
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:04,640
talk evidence and they want to talk

1220
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:06,640
official documents and they actually

1221
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:08,480
want to sit down and talk about this

1222
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,640
soberly you know everybody seems to be

1223
00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:13,200
chasing the whatever the latest fad is

1224
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:16,079
or the latest rumor uh whatever you know

1225
00:46:21,270 --> 00:46:18,880
gives them some sort of publicity it's

1226
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:21,280
it's really it's a debacle it really is

1227
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:23,839
ufology's in such a sad state right now

1228
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:26,079
let's go back into

1229
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:28,319
what got you going with your current

1230
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:29,520
projects

1231
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:30,880
and of all the things you could have

1232
00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:34,240
done in exploring the ufo mystery why

1233
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:35,920
did you go back to

1234
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:37,760
the ghost rockets

1235
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:38,960
well let me give you a little background

1236
00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:42,480
first here gene um when i was in mufon

1237
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:44,560
and and uh you know back then i had a

1238
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,880
very genuine interest to understand

1239
00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:48,720
what in the world was going on

1240
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:50,240
you know like i said when i took over

1241
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:53,440
from john schussler this was in 2006 uh

1242
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:55,119
i remember actually sitting down at

1243
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:56,480
mufon headquarters

1244
00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:58,160
uh probably a couple of years before

1245
00:47:01,910 --> 00:47:00,000
that and we were john and i were sitting

1246
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:01,920
at a little cafe right across from from

1247
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:03,760
the the headquarters front

1248
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:06,480
uh the little storefront they had there

1249
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:08,319
and you know i said you know in all

1250
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,640
sincerity i asked john john what do you

1251
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:12,000
think's going on what do you think's

1252
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:14,079
happening what are ufos about what he

1253
00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:15,680
thinks behind this

1254
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:17,680
and and and he his answer really floored

1255
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:20,240
me he said i don't know

1256
00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:22,160
and that that floored me because i

1257
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:23,680
thought wait a minute how can you i

1258
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:25,440
don't know how can you not have an idea

1259
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:27,119
you know you've been the director for so

1260
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:28,400
long you've been in this organization

1261
00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:30,000
for so long so much data has been

1262
00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:31,920
accumulated surely you must have some

1263
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,000
understanding of what's going on and he

1264
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:36,240
really didn't have any answers so that

1265
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,640
intrigued me and and as i started

1266
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:40,000
getting more involved in mufon what

1267
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:41,680
intrigued me is how many

1268
00:47:45,829 --> 00:47:44,079
uh different folks with various various

1269
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:45,839
high-level degrees were involved in the

1270
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:47,760
organization and i thought well you know

1271
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:50,000
these guys can all be crazy obviously

1272
00:47:53,589 --> 00:47:51,200
you know they're they're credentialed

1273
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:53,599
folks they have an education if they see

1274
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:55,040
something into this in this phenomena

1275
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:56,800
there must be something here so that's

1276
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:58,000
what really intrigued me that's what

1277
00:48:02,950 --> 00:47:59,760
really got me going was this pursuit of

1278
00:48:04,550 --> 00:48:02,960
truth and when i became the director

1279
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,560
and as i started to

1280
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:06,480
uh either investigate cases of my own or

1281
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:07,839
receive data coming into mufon

1282
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:09,760
headquarters the more i started to get

1283
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:11,359
the sinking feeling that there were

1284
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:13,520
other forces at play here

1285
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:15,440
forces that had nothing to do with men

1286
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:16,720
in black and

1287
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:19,200
you know cover-up of the subject more

1288
00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:22,000
along the lines of simply deception

1289
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:23,920
folks that were trying to come in and do

1290
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:27,839
anything possible to disrupt the

1291
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:30,559
ufology as a field as an organization

1292
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:32,640
and trying to disrupt

1293
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:34,000
real research

1294
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,000
it also always seemed to be some

1295
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:38,160
sinister force that was coming in to try

1296
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:40,079
to meddle in affairs

1297
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:41,920
and and and the more i started seeing

1298
00:48:46,069 --> 00:48:44,160
that the more i started thinking there's

1299
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,079
something to this this is a part that's

1300
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,400
unexplored you know folks want to label

1301
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:50,319
it men in black i'm i'm not satisfied

1302
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:52,240
with that because i don't believe that

1303
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,280
there's some

1304
00:48:59,030 --> 00:48:56,640
omniscient omnipresent organization that

1305
00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:59,040
knows all sees all and can be everywhere

1306
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:01,520
at once there are real human beings

1307
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:02,400
behind

1308
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:04,240
the this deception and why are they

1309
00:49:07,990 --> 00:49:06,000
doing this what is their motivation what

1310
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:08,000
are they seeking and so i thought you

1311
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:09,119
know i'm going to start looking into

1312
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:11,520
that part and as i started researching

1313
00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:13,839
it led me back to things to start you

1314
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:15,920
know exploring the early days of ufos

1315
00:49:19,589 --> 00:49:18,240
and as i went back in the 1940s i

1316
00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:19,599
started to see that same threat of

1317
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,760
deception and that's where i that's

1318
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:23,280
where i landed and that's where i

1319
00:49:26,710 --> 00:49:24,480
thought my i'm going to focus my

1320
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:26,720
research is here at the very beginning

1321
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:29,200
of the of the modern ufo era you know

1322
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:31,680
back in in times of mori island kenneth

1323
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:34,559
arnold and roswell and the ghost rockets

1324
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:36,160
and so that's where i focus my research

1325
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:38,160
for the last five years

1326
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:40,640
now if we look at these early events and

1327
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:42,000
find they were

1328
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:44,079
all or mostly related to intelligence

1329
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:45,359
activities

1330
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:48,079
does that kind of destroy the edifice of

1331
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:49,680
ufology

1332
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:51,680
not at all and this is the argument i

1333
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:53,760
seem to have non-stop with folks in the

1334
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:55,920
field who are threatened by the fact

1335
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:57,520
that i'm trying to

1336
00:50:01,589 --> 00:49:58,880
you know show that these cases are

1337
00:50:04,309 --> 00:50:01,599
probably more cold war intrigue than

1338
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:04,319
extraterrestrial visitation because they

1339
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:07,200
see it as if if somehow these four major

1340
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:09,839
cases get dismantled that the entire et

1341
00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:11,920
hypothesis is going to topple along with

1342
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:14,640
it and i'm thinking that's i don't even

1343
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,240
understand why they're defensive about

1344
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:18,240
this because that's not the case

1345
00:50:22,950 --> 00:50:20,480
you know if we think about the universe

1346
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:22,960
this large place that we live in

1347
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:25,119
which we're a very small part in

1348
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:27,359
it's it's an it's enormously huge

1349
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:29,599
science has actually shown statistically

1350
00:50:33,589 --> 00:50:31,280
that there's life out there there are

1351
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:33,599
other civilizations they're out there

1352
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:35,520
the question is have they arrived here

1353
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:37,040
have they visited us

1354
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:39,119
that's really the question that ufology

1355
00:50:42,549 --> 00:50:41,200
is trying to pursue and what they're

1356
00:50:45,109 --> 00:50:42,559
trying to prove

1357
00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:45,119
and who knows you know we can't we can't

1358
00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:46,880
place outside the realm of possibilities

1359
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:48,400
that we've been visited in the past

1360
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:49,760
we've been visited in the present we're

1361
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:51,599
going to be visited in the future so

1362
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,880
even if these cases fall to the you know

1363
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:57,119
wayside as cold war intrigue that

1364
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:59,920
doesn't discount the possibility that

1365
00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:01,440
there are still cases out there that are

1366
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,319
real and that can be proven to be real

1367
00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:06,480
so the important thing here is to deal

1368
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:08,640
with the cases

1369
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:09,440
that

1370
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:11,119
are obviously not

1371
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:13,280
unusual craft from

1372
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:15,119
heaven knows where

1373
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:16,800
that helps us find the answers we've got

1374
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:18,640
a lot more to talk about with james

1375
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:19,760
carrion

1376
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:21,520
including the things he's been working

1377
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:24,480
on since the rosetta deception was first

1378
00:51:33,890 --> 00:51:26,960
published kurt collins is our co-host

1379
00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:38,230
[Music]

1380
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:40,390
independently leading the way for the

1381
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:43,280
nation compelling talk for every

1382
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:48,000
political persuasion we are g c n

1383
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:49,680
st paddy's day is coming soon to

1384
00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:52,400
gunsan80.com my buddy mark is rolling in

1385
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:54,480
clover since guns80.com announced its

1386
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:56,720
clean and green sale he used his

1387
00:52:01,670 --> 00:51:58,880
leprechaun-like magical powers to get

1388
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:01,680
guns80.com to offer us a pot of gold at

1389
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:04,079
the end of the rainbow now for a limited

1390
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:06,480
time when you order an ar-15 rifle kit

1391
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:08,800
gunzadi.com will toss in a cleaning kit

1392
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:11,920
and a tactical bipod pistol grip free

1393
00:52:17,990 --> 00:52:14,960
all for the low low price of 449.95

1394
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:18,000
go to guns80.com that's guns80.com

1395
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:19,920
we the people grow cotton weave fabric

1396
00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:21,920
engrave ink embed strips and fibers to

1397
00:52:25,349 --> 00:52:23,520
protect from counterfeit then carting to

1398
00:52:27,349 --> 00:52:25,359
a private bank having it led back at

1399
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:27,359
interest forcing taxes to service debt

1400
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:29,200
this capitalism or was jefferson correct

1401
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:30,880
when stating a central bank issuing the

1402
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:32,480
public currency is a greater menace to

1403
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:33,680
the liberties of the people than a

1404
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:35,440
standing army hi ted anderson i'm

1405
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:36,800
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1406
00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:38,720
that explains our monetary system call

1407
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:41,760
for your copy 800-686-2237

1408
00:52:46,309 --> 00:52:44,960
it's time to understand the system call

1409
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:46,319
three seven that's 800-686-2237 hundred

1410
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:49,520
six eight six two two three

1411
00:52:53,109 --> 00:52:51,280
by now you may have heard a bit about

1412
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:53,119
bitcoins but did you know bitcoins are

1413
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:55,520
now over an 8.5 billion dollar market

1414
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:57,839
and did you know that over 65 000

1415
00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:00,240
businesses now accept bitcoins listen if

1416
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:02,000
you're already earning bitcoins or

1417
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:03,359
trying to make money in the bitcoin

1418
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:06,400
market you've got to know bidbit.co why

1419
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:08,640
because bidbit.co is where you can

1420
00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:10,800
easily receive bitcoin by selling and

1421
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:12,800
auctioning off your own personal items

1422
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:14,480
or promote business products and

1423
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:16,559
services for bitcoins you heard right

1424
00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:18,400
whether personal or business you can now

1425
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:20,720
buy sell and auction your product and

1426
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:22,960
services quickly easily and securely for

1427
00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:25,760
bitcoin at bidbit.com the first and only

1428
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:27,680
marketplace website to offer bidbit

1429
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:29,839
escrow a proprietary technology which

1430
00:53:33,829 --> 00:53:31,839
gives buyers and sellers security and

1431
00:53:35,829 --> 00:53:33,839
peace of mind because all transactions

1432
00:53:37,750 --> 00:53:35,839
are protected start today it's free to

1433
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:37,760
join free to post free to auction and

1434
00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:41,200
free to bid at fitbit.com buy sell bid

1435
00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:44,640
or auction everything bitcoin that's www

1436
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:46,640
dot b-i-d-b-i-t

1437
00:54:03,190 --> 00:53:59,589
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1438
00:54:04,470 --> 00:54:03,200
standard of paranormal radio

1439
00:54:07,860 --> 00:54:04,480
and now

1440
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:07,870
here's gene steinberg

1441
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:13,589
we've got a little contest running for

1442
00:54:19,390 --> 00:54:14,960
people who are interested in the

1443
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:21,030
plus.powercast.com

1444
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:24,400
one of our members donated two one year

1445
00:54:28,309 --> 00:54:26,160
memberships in powercast plus they're

1446
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:28,319
normally worth fifty dollars each

1447
00:54:31,270 --> 00:54:29,680
and what we're doing here is we're

1448
00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:31,280
asking those of you who think you

1449
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:34,079
deserve a free membership to post a

1450
00:54:36,829 --> 00:54:35,920
message in our forum

1451
00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:36,839
at

1452
00:54:43,190 --> 00:54:38,760
forum.thepowercast.com

1453
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:43,200
up there's a clearly labeled topic or

1454
00:54:47,109 --> 00:54:44,240
thread

1455
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:47,119
about powercast plus and why

1456
00:54:51,190 --> 00:54:49,200
you would want a free membership and

1457
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:51,200
obviously we'll look at people who

1458
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:52,640
maybe you haven't got the money you're a

1459
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:54,559
student you're retired

1460
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:56,079
and you can't afford to pay fifty

1461
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:58,720
dollars a year we'll consider that

1462
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:00,960
otherwise we welcome your membership you

1463
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:02,960
get after the powercast which is an

1464
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:06,079
exclusive podcast only available to

1465
00:55:17,589 --> 00:55:15,030
now as james carrion said in his

1466
00:55:20,069 --> 00:55:17,599
comments in our previous segment he's

1467
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:20,079
not destroying the entire edifice of ufo

1468
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:22,240
research if we find out that there were

1469
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:25,119
intelligence activities early on now

1470
00:55:28,470 --> 00:55:26,640
after you came out with the rosetta

1471
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:28,480
deception i gather you've expanded the

1472
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:29,280
book

1473
00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:31,040
sure absolutely i'm actually doing a

1474
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:32,559
rewrite of the book right now it's going

1475
00:55:35,990 --> 00:55:34,480
to be doubling in length

1476
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:36,000
because i've been still doing ongoing

1477
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:38,400
research and i've actually found out

1478
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:40,400
quite a few very interesting things

1479
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:42,400
related to the book things that i'm

1480
00:55:46,630 --> 00:55:44,960
expanding upon new information

1481
00:55:47,829 --> 00:55:46,640
that i found recently

1482
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:47,839
probably one of the most intriguing

1483
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:49,200
things was

1484
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:51,440
the fact that this gentleman who

1485
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:53,440
uh swedish intelligence officer who was

1486
00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:56,160
very much involved in the early reports

1487
00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:57,520
of ghost rockets

1488
00:56:02,309 --> 00:55:59,760
was later convicted to be a russian spy

1489
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:02,319
by the swedish government so there are

1490
00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:04,319
things that i found piece of information

1491
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:06,480
i found early on in my research that i'm

1492
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:08,160
now coming back to and as i circle back

1493
00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:09,440
to it i'm finding more pieces of

1494
00:56:14,069 --> 00:56:12,160
information it's leading to to other

1495
00:56:16,789 --> 00:56:14,079
interesting tidbits and other

1496
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:16,799
interesting documents in fact i'm headed

1497
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:18,559
to the to the national archives tomorrow

1498
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:20,240
because i have a whole bunch of research

1499
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:22,000
i'm doing i already select records i've

1500
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:25,440
picked out to try to find other evidence

1501
00:56:30,789 --> 00:56:28,400
that shows and bolster the case that the

1502
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:30,799
ghost rockets are really cold war

1503
00:56:34,789 --> 00:56:32,240
intrigue you know we're talking about

1504
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:34,799
early cold war here even before the the

1505
00:56:38,630 --> 00:56:37,200
use of the of the word cold war part of

1506
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:38,640
an intelligence history that most

1507
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:40,319
americans don't know about

1508
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,319
now why is it then that it became part

1509
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:44,720
of the ufo lexicon because of lights in

1510
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,760
the sky

1511
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:47,760
yeah honestly i don't think so i think

1512
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,880
that when the ghost rockets were first

1513
00:56:54,230 --> 00:56:52,720
uh the story of go about ghost ghost

1514
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:54,240
rocks was first put out there any in the

1515
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,880
deception behind this i don't think the

1516
00:57:01,349 --> 00:56:59,040
the deception planners had any inkling

1517
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:01,359
or any idea that this would be

1518
00:57:06,150 --> 00:57:03,200
associated with extraterrestrial

1519
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:06,160
visitation or aliens or anything from

1520
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:08,160
outside the earth i think they had a

1521
00:57:12,950 --> 00:57:11,200
very finite idea about what they were

1522
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:12,960
doing in terms of

1523
00:57:16,470 --> 00:57:14,720
how they're going to push the deception

1524
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:16,480
and it got misinterpreted later so it

1525
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:17,839
was misinterpreted by the general

1526
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,160
population and and then ufology in

1527
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:22,319
general at a later date so there's

1528
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:24,720
nothing in the ghost rocket reports that

1529
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:27,359
say e.t i would agree with that uh gene

1530
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:30,000
you know well donald kehoe is one that

1531
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:31,839
popularized it but i think other people

1532
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:33,280
were looking at it some of the early

1533
00:57:36,390 --> 00:57:35,040
fortians they were looking at our

1534
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:36,400
earlier events

1535
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:38,079
to connect to uh

1536
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:40,000
to the ufo reports and they weren't

1537
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:42,000
necessarily well the 40th were kind of

1538
00:57:46,069 --> 00:57:43,760
thinking about the extraterrestrial

1539
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:46,079
angle but but originally it was just uh

1540
00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:48,000
you know what else is there the ghost

1541
00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:49,280
rockets were

1542
00:57:52,630 --> 00:57:51,119
were fresh in people's minds and but

1543
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:52,640
they were also looking at airships and

1544
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:54,880
other things and they just they folded

1545
00:58:00,549 --> 00:57:57,680
in a lot of this in to add substance to

1546
00:58:03,430 --> 00:58:00,559
the early flying saucer phenomenon

1547
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:03,440
was it felt maybe that if you

1548
00:58:09,349 --> 00:58:05,920
show that maybe the presence of ufos

1549
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:09,359
didn't begin on june 24th 1947 with

1550
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:11,520
kenneth arnold it would add more

1551
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,160
credibility to it so you look back into

1552
00:58:18,069 --> 00:58:16,240
possible early sightings

1553
00:58:19,829 --> 00:58:18,079
and anything that smacked of lights in

1554
00:58:21,829 --> 00:58:19,839
the sky was part of the list if it

1555
00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:21,839
wasn't immediately explained away is

1556
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,680
conventional you know i would i would

1557
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:25,280
think so i think it really started with

1558
00:58:29,270 --> 00:58:27,040
that with kenneth arnold sightings and

1559
00:58:31,510 --> 00:58:29,280
then the the explosion that happened in

1560
00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:31,520
the media from his sighting where folks

1561
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:32,880
started looking up into the sky and

1562
00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:35,280
saying i wonder what that is you know is

1563
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:37,359
it is it more than just our military is

1564
00:58:40,870 --> 00:58:39,440
it more than just you know these new

1565
00:58:42,630 --> 00:58:40,880
jets that are flying around could there

1566
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:42,640
be something else here so i think it

1567
00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:46,079
became a sort of a media sensation that

1568
00:58:51,430 --> 00:58:48,480
uh really triggered the you know sort of

1569
00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:51,440
this popular cultural myth that we know

1570
00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:52,720
about today

1571
00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:55,440
now after you appeared last summer on

1572
00:59:01,670 --> 00:58:58,799
the power cast stanton friedman came on

1573
00:59:03,670 --> 00:59:01,680
a couple of weeks later and he also

1574
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:03,680
made comments in our forums regarding

1575
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:05,599
your book first before he read it then

1576
00:59:09,829 --> 00:59:07,680
after he read it and then a little bit

1577
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:09,839
later on back on august 10th don

1578
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:12,319
berliner had comments kind of saying

1579
00:59:15,990 --> 00:59:14,240
pretty much the same thing well

1580
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:16,000
they know that something happened then

1581
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:17,920
and that you're not considering all the

1582
00:59:20,710 --> 00:59:19,760
possible instances of these ghost

1583
00:59:22,870 --> 00:59:20,720
rockets

1584
00:59:25,750 --> 00:59:22,880
you know i i think i you know honestly

1585
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:25,760
it really boils down to i'll just say it

1586
00:59:29,270 --> 00:59:27,440
i'll just be blunt about it

1587
00:59:30,630 --> 00:59:29,280
you know stan friedman don berliner and

1588
00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:30,640
a lot of other folks that are in you

1589
00:59:35,190 --> 00:59:33,520
know this field are intellectual cowards

1590
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,200
they're cowards because when when

1591
00:59:38,789 --> 00:59:37,200
presented evidence irrefutable evidence

1592
00:59:41,430 --> 00:59:38,799
documented evidence

1593
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:41,440
they refuse to argue evidence

1594
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:43,280
they'll do everything to dismiss dismiss

1595
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:45,599
it some you know summarily dismiss it

1596
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:47,359
point me to other cases they think are

1597
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,480
real

1598
00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:50,480
make any argument except actually read

1599
00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:53,040
my book read it for what it is

1600
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:55,680
look at the documentation behind it

1601
00:59:59,589 --> 00:59:57,520
and actually see that this is official

1602
01:00:01,750 --> 00:59:59,599
documentation you know declassified top

1603
01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:01,760
secret memos we're not talking about

1604
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:03,680
grainy slides that was found in somebody

1605
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:05,680
somebody's attic we'll have to get into

1606
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:07,920
that a little bit later but go ahead

1607
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:11,200
or documents that were inserted into

1608
01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:13,440
the national archives and and that some

1609
01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:15,520
postcard told you to go find we're

1610
01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:17,599
really talking about hard evidence here

1611
01:00:22,630 --> 01:00:20,400
and when ufology refuses to look at it

1612
01:00:25,510 --> 01:00:22,640
when they refuse to examine it it's

1613
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:25,520
because it's it's purely intellectual

1614
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:26,720
cowardice

1615
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:28,799
is it possible that some

1616
01:00:34,069 --> 01:00:31,359
ghost rocket reports were

1617
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:34,079
ufos as opposed to this counter

1618
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:35,760
intelligence activity

1619
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:37,280
i can't discount that anything's

1620
01:00:41,750 --> 01:00:39,520
possible uh but i would say that the

1621
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:41,760
majority of them were not and not only

1622
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:43,839
the majority were not but the majority

1623
01:00:48,549 --> 01:00:46,720
of reports were based on manufactured

1624
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:48,559
events we're talking about true

1625
01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:51,119
deception here we're talking about the

1626
01:00:56,150 --> 01:00:54,240
use of our own naval forces that went in

1627
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:56,160
and made some of these ghost rocket

1628
01:00:58,470 --> 01:00:57,599
sightings happen

1629
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:58,480
through

1630
01:01:01,589 --> 01:01:00,160
what they knew how to do best you know a

1631
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:01,599
lot of folks don't really understand

1632
01:01:05,750 --> 01:01:03,920
that the the how deception was used

1633
01:01:07,349 --> 01:01:05,760
during world war ii and some of the

1634
01:01:09,829 --> 01:01:07,359
special units that were employed during

1635
01:01:11,990 --> 01:01:09,839
world war ii to make the enemy believe

1636
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:12,000
that we were coming into a certain beach

1637
01:01:15,109 --> 01:01:13,599
uh you know with these large landing

1638
01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:15,119
craft when in fact they were just small

1639
01:01:20,069 --> 01:01:17,040
boats with speakers on them and blowing

1640
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:20,079
smoke you if you can make an enemy your

1641
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:21,680
enemy believe that you're landing a

1642
01:01:26,789 --> 01:01:23,520
major force on a beach imagine what you

1643
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:26,799
can make a peacetime population think

1644
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:28,480
that that's going on i mean i think

1645
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:30,480
there's there there were enough folks

1646
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:33,119
with the skills and the right forces in

1647
01:01:35,910 --> 01:01:34,160
place

1648
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:35,920
that could have made most of these

1649
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:37,520
sightings that were allegedly ghost

1650
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:39,440
rockets happen and they weren't really

1651
01:01:43,349 --> 01:01:41,040
rockets nor were they extraterrestrial

1652
01:01:45,910 --> 01:01:43,359
craft well that raises a bigger question

1653
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,920
having succeeded with ghost rockets to

1654
01:01:50,630 --> 01:01:48,000
what extent are events in the ufo

1655
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:50,640
mystery really do to some kind of

1656
01:01:54,789 --> 01:01:53,280
counterintelligence now let me just tell

1657
01:01:56,870 --> 01:01:54,799
you we're about to run out of time in

1658
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:56,880
the segments let's start the answer here

1659
01:02:00,870 --> 01:01:58,880
continue in the next segment now i know

1660
01:02:02,950 --> 01:02:00,880
that kurt collins has questions from our

1661
01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:02,960
listeners that also relate to this so

1662
01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:04,880
let's start here james

1663
01:02:07,910 --> 01:02:06,160
so go ahead with the first part of the

1664
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:07,920
answer let's continue

1665
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,200
and i'm sorry i i didn't catch the

1666
01:02:13,109 --> 01:02:11,440
question oh about

1667
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:13,119
can how to what degree can this be

1668
01:02:17,349 --> 01:02:15,839
extended to other events in ufo field

1669
01:02:20,230 --> 01:02:17,359
counter intelligence

1670
01:02:23,589 --> 01:02:20,240
oh i understood well i think that of

1671
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:23,599
course the same the same operations that

1672
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:25,359
that kicked off the ghost rockets that

1673
01:02:30,230 --> 01:02:27,920
same cold war intrigue that later

1674
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:30,240
morphed into the broader cold war

1675
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:33,520
and the hysteria of the mccarthy era

1676
01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:36,880
and our arch-enemy the soviet union

1677
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:39,839
all of that together could have easily

1678
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:41,119
created

1679
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:43,599
you know some of these events that are

1680
01:02:48,630 --> 01:02:46,079
that are popularly popularly associated

1681
01:02:50,309 --> 01:02:48,640
with ufology i don't know which ones i

1682
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:50,319
can't tell you i can't tell you exactly

1683
01:02:53,670 --> 01:02:52,559
which ones all i know is that there has

1684
01:02:55,510 --> 01:02:53,680
been enough

1685
01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:55,520
uh uh intelligence interest and

1686
01:02:58,390 --> 01:02:57,280
intelligence agency interest in this

1687
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:58,400
field

1688
01:03:01,750 --> 01:03:00,640
from a counterintelligence perspective i

1689
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:01,760
mean we already know that with things

1690
01:03:08,230 --> 01:03:05,520
like the paul benowitz case and and uh

1691
01:03:09,990 --> 01:03:08,240
you know moore's uh speech at the at the

1692
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:10,000
mufun symposium where he revealed that

1693
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:11,680
he was an informer for for an

1694
01:03:15,589 --> 01:03:13,920
intelligence agency so we know that

1695
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:15,599
there's enough human involvement here to

1696
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:17,280
know that there that there's going to be

1697
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:18,799
continued involvement because i think

1698
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:20,880
they have they use this field i think

1699
01:03:24,069 --> 01:03:22,319
they have an interest in this field for

1700
01:03:26,150 --> 01:03:24,079
their own purposes and really has

1701
01:03:29,589 --> 01:03:26,160
nothing to do with some massive

1702
01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:29,599
uh cosmic watergate ufo cover-up i think

1703
01:03:32,950 --> 01:03:30,880
they're really just using it for more

1704
01:03:35,029 --> 01:03:32,960
mundane intelligence purposes

1705
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:35,039
james carrion is with us

1706
01:03:39,730 --> 01:03:37,200
with kurt collins and gene steinberg

1707
01:03:47,270 --> 01:03:39,740
you're in the paracast

1708
01:03:52,470 --> 01:03:50,069
do you need a website well you can get a

1709
01:03:55,349 --> 01:03:52,480
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1710
01:03:57,109 --> 01:03:55,359
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1711
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:57,119
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1712
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1713
01:04:05,029 --> 01:04:02,400
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1714
01:04:07,349 --> 01:04:05,039
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1715
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1716
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:10,799
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1717
01:04:15,470 --> 01:04:13,599
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1718
01:04:17,829 --> 01:04:15,480
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1719
01:04:19,270 --> 01:04:17,839
namecheap.com first game attack of the

1720
01:04:21,349 --> 01:04:19,280
rockoids and it was a critically

1721
01:04:23,349 --> 01:04:21,359
acclaimed success and now there's the

1722
01:04:25,430 --> 01:04:23,359
coming of the protectors a former

1723
01:04:27,829 --> 01:04:25,440
military intelligence man is contacted

1724
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:27,839
by a space woman in a dream a dream that

1725
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:30,319
turns out to be a nightmare because evil

1726
01:04:34,069 --> 01:04:31,920
forces on her distant planet are

1727
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:34,079
planning to conquer the earth this is

1728
01:04:38,710 --> 01:04:36,480
gripping science fiction of the classic

1729
01:04:40,870 --> 01:04:38,720
kind attack of the rockoids and the

1730
01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:40,880
coming of the protectors find out more

1731
01:04:47,589 --> 01:04:42,720
at rockoids.com that's

1732
01:04:52,150 --> 01:04:49,990
mike stennerson for midas resources in

1733
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:52,160
no time in history have precious metals

1734
01:04:56,470 --> 01:04:54,240
been more important certainly not in my

1735
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:56,480
22 years in the industry the dollar's

1736
01:05:01,589 --> 01:04:58,720
lost over 90 percent of its value in the

1737
01:05:03,589 --> 01:05:01,599
last 60 years no fiat currency has ever

1738
01:05:06,069 --> 01:05:03,599
survived the government printing presses

1739
01:05:10,230 --> 01:05:06,079
ours is not immune the time is now to be

1740
01:05:17,109 --> 01:05:13,029
extension 116. anything tied to the

1741
01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:17,119
dollar is at risk cds annuities 401ks

1742
01:05:22,309 --> 01:05:20,400
iras stocks bonds you name it so decide

1743
01:05:24,390 --> 01:05:22,319
do you want to leave a legacy of wealth

1744
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:24,400
or debt for your family the choice is

1745
01:05:28,559 --> 01:05:35,990
extension 116. that's 1-800-686-2237

1746
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:38,069
proactive not reactive call

1747
01:05:42,309 --> 01:05:40,370
1-800-686-2237

1748
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:42,319
[Music]

1749
01:05:48,789 --> 01:05:44,130
extension 116.

1750
01:05:53,029 --> 01:05:50,630
as if chlorine in our water weren't bad

1751
01:05:55,029 --> 01:05:53,039
enough now they're adding ammonia

1752
01:05:56,950 --> 01:05:55,039
it's true some municipalities are now

1753
01:05:59,190 --> 01:05:56,960
adding ammonia plus chlorine to your

1754
01:06:01,750 --> 01:05:59,200
water supply it's a disinfectant called

1755
01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:01,760
chloramine but with a trusted big berkey

1756
01:06:07,510 --> 01:06:04,079
water filter you can keep chloramine out

1757
01:06:09,670 --> 01:06:07,520
of your water new nsf epa certified lab

1758
01:06:12,789 --> 01:06:09,680
tests show epa berkey water filters

1759
01:06:15,589 --> 01:06:12,799
remove chloramines pharmaceuticals bpa

1760
01:06:18,069 --> 01:06:15,599
pesticides bacteria and viruses all

1761
01:06:19,990 --> 01:06:18,079
forms of fluoride and much more big

1762
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:20,000
berkey water filters are the original

1763
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:22,240
and most trusted on the market the gold

1764
01:06:27,510 --> 01:06:24,880
standard in water purification and our

1765
01:06:29,910 --> 01:06:27,520
filters last for years at less than two

1766
01:06:31,829 --> 01:06:29,920
cents per gallon big berkey the one

1767
01:06:34,470 --> 01:06:31,839
that's powerful enough to purify

1768
01:06:35,789 --> 01:06:34,480
stagnant pond water get your big berkey

1769
01:06:39,069 --> 01:06:35,799
today call

1770
01:06:41,470 --> 01:06:39,079
1-877-99 berkey or click

1771
01:06:44,309 --> 01:06:41,480
bigberkeywaterfilters.com that's

1772
01:06:46,950 --> 01:06:44,319
1-877-99 b-e-r-k-e-y

1773
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:46,960
big berkey water filters for the love of

1774
01:06:53,510 --> 01:06:47,850
clean water

1775
01:06:57,670 --> 01:06:55,589
here is what one doctor has to say about

1776
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:57,680
extendovite i would like to thank you

1777
01:07:01,109 --> 01:06:59,680
don for making my job so much easier

1778
01:07:02,710 --> 01:07:01,119
because your products just make it so

1779
01:07:04,470 --> 01:07:02,720
simple right to fool around with a lot

1780
01:07:06,150 --> 01:07:04,480
of exotic things that don't work we can

1781
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:06,160
just put them on your product and things

1782
01:07:10,470 --> 01:07:07,920
start to work almost right away i've had

1783
01:07:12,230 --> 01:07:10,480
dozens of dozens of patients with heart

1784
01:07:14,230 --> 01:07:12,240
problems who have corrected them and

1785
01:07:16,230 --> 01:07:14,240
what it's doing there's so much garlic

1786
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:16,240
in there that has a yeast killing effect

1787
01:07:20,069 --> 01:07:18,000
the yeast is a big problem in the gut

1788
01:07:21,910 --> 01:07:20,079
pushes the liver heart it also has metal

1789
01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:21,920
chelating effect and most of the other

1790
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:23,520
herbs in there i find that strengthen

1791
01:07:27,349 --> 01:07:25,280
the arteries they help to neutralize

1792
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:27,359
free radicals you're rambling close to

1793
01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:29,280
what we do in our program as you can get

1794
01:07:33,270 --> 01:07:31,039
as far as one supplement goes it's

1795
01:07:35,349 --> 01:07:33,280
working on the gut it's working on the

1796
01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:35,359
liver it's working on the arteries what

1797
01:07:41,270 --> 01:07:36,960
more can you ask for to get your

1798
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:42,800
or visit 1-877-928-8822

1799
01:07:52,950 --> 01:07:50,710
[Music]

1800
01:07:55,430 --> 01:07:52,960
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1801
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:55,440
comment or question about the paracast

1802
01:08:02,230 --> 01:07:58,960
send it to news at theparecast.com

1803
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:02,240
that's news at theparacast.com

1804
01:08:06,549 --> 01:08:04,079
and don't forget to visit our famous

1805
01:08:10,710 --> 01:08:06,559
paracast community forums at

1806
01:08:15,510 --> 01:08:13,589
we have kurt collins as our co-host

1807
01:08:17,269 --> 01:08:15,520
chris will be back next week he's

1808
01:08:19,430 --> 01:08:17,279
mourning the passing of his brother

1809
01:08:20,950 --> 01:08:19,440
brendan o'brien this week

1810
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:20,960
and we wish him well

1811
01:08:25,269 --> 01:08:23,199
james carrion is talking now about the

1812
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:25,279
rosetta deception and the implications

1813
01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:27,120
thereof the presence

1814
01:08:30,070 --> 01:08:28,080
of

1815
01:08:33,349 --> 01:08:30,080
intelligence activities that might have

1816
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:33,359
impacted ufos now maury island is a

1817
01:08:38,070 --> 01:08:36,080
common case where we see indications of

1818
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:38,080
intelligence activity and all the screwy

1819
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:39,440
things that happen

1820
01:08:43,829 --> 01:08:41,120
with for example

1821
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:43,839
kenneth arnold when he went to

1822
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:45,839
tacoma washington where

1823
01:08:50,149 --> 01:08:48,159
there are no hotels available

1824
01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:50,159
but someone already has the reservation

1825
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:52,080
all sorts of screwy things like talking

1826
01:08:56,630 --> 01:08:53,759
to a reporter who says he's being

1827
01:08:58,470 --> 01:08:56,640
recorded in his room it's tapped what do

1828
01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:58,480
you think about that james well it has

1829
01:09:03,189 --> 01:09:00,640
all the the trappings all the markings

1830
01:09:05,590 --> 01:09:03,199
of a cold war operation who were the

1831
01:09:07,749 --> 01:09:05,600
folks back then who could bug hotel room

1832
01:09:09,990 --> 01:09:07,759
uh who were the folks that that were

1833
01:09:11,829 --> 01:09:10,000
adapted psychological manipulation it

1834
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:11,839
was the same intelligence forces that

1835
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:14,640
were uh used during world war ii

1836
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:16,000
you know right after the the end of the

1837
01:09:21,349 --> 01:09:17,839
war in 1945

1838
01:09:23,349 --> 01:09:21,359
uh when the oss was uh disbanded by

1839
01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:23,359
president truman there were a lot of

1840
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:25,040
people that were out of work

1841
01:09:29,829 --> 01:09:27,040
and i'm sure some of these forces ended

1842
01:09:31,669 --> 01:09:29,839
up working some uh some some interesting

1843
01:09:33,510 --> 01:09:31,679
jobs on behalf of the new intelligence

1844
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:33,520
agencies that were there so we know that

1845
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:34,960
there was there was a skill set out

1846
01:09:39,829 --> 01:09:36,960
there that was available to pull off

1847
01:09:41,749 --> 01:09:39,839
something like mori island to to create

1848
01:09:43,189 --> 01:09:41,759
you know a deception and that's

1849
01:09:45,269 --> 01:09:43,199
something that i'm going to be you know

1850
01:09:47,669 --> 01:09:45,279
talking about in this in my next book

1851
01:09:49,749 --> 01:09:47,679
to what purpose i understand the purpose

1852
01:09:51,910 --> 01:09:49,759
of the ghost rockets but what about

1853
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:51,920
maury island i think it's actually very

1854
01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:53,600
much related in fact i think maury

1855
01:09:58,709 --> 01:09:56,320
island is probably the early roswell

1856
01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:58,719
what i mean by that is if you read my

1857
01:10:01,590 --> 01:10:00,800
book what my book is basically saying is

1858
01:10:03,910 --> 01:10:01,600
that

1859
01:10:05,669 --> 01:10:03,920
the united states and great britain

1860
01:10:06,470 --> 01:10:05,679
they had an interest

1861
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:06,480
in

1862
01:10:12,550 --> 01:10:10,880
these sensational news stories

1863
01:10:13,750 --> 01:10:12,560
for one specific reason

1864
01:10:16,229 --> 01:10:13,760
they wanted the russians to be

1865
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:16,239
interested to become interested in these

1866
01:10:21,030 --> 01:10:17,760
stories thinking that it's probably some

1867
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:21,040
new us projects some top top secret

1868
01:10:24,790 --> 01:10:22,000
research

1869
01:10:27,350 --> 01:10:24,800
that was being done some remanufactured

1870
01:10:29,350 --> 01:10:27,360
nazi aircraft that we took away from

1871
01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:29,360
germany whatever you want to say we

1872
01:10:32,950 --> 01:10:30,800
wanted the russians involved we wanted

1873
01:10:34,149 --> 01:10:32,960
them to be interested for two reasons

1874
01:10:36,229 --> 01:10:34,159
one we could use it for for

1875
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:36,239
counterintelligence reasons to find out

1876
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:37,840
who had an interest that may indicate

1877
01:10:41,830 --> 01:10:39,760
who a potential spy is

1878
01:10:44,229 --> 01:10:41,840
and the other reason i think is based on

1879
01:10:45,990 --> 01:10:44,239
you know some serious research i've done

1880
01:10:47,830 --> 01:10:46,000
is that i think we were interested in

1881
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:47,840
using it to break the soviet diplomatic

1882
01:10:52,149 --> 01:10:50,800
code where the soviet spies would take

1883
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:52,159
these newspaper articles they would

1884
01:10:55,830 --> 01:10:53,760
condense them and then they would encode

1885
01:10:57,510 --> 01:10:55,840
them and send them back to moscow

1886
01:10:59,830 --> 01:10:57,520
well at the same time we were

1887
01:11:01,270 --> 01:10:59,840
intercepting their coded messages

1888
01:11:03,430 --> 01:11:01,280
so we would have them sort of what's

1889
01:11:05,750 --> 01:11:03,440
called a crib that would let us break

1890
01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:05,760
into their coding system so i think it

1891
01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:08,239
was very much a code breaking aspect to

1892
01:11:12,390 --> 01:11:10,320
this so it make the russians wondering

1893
01:11:14,149 --> 01:11:12,400
what's going on with these ufos

1894
01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:14,159
do they represent advanced american

1895
01:11:18,310 --> 01:11:15,840
aircraft do we know something that's

1896
01:11:21,510 --> 01:11:18,320
going on that they don't so their spies

1897
01:11:23,350 --> 01:11:21,520
are work full-time absolutely and and

1898
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:23,360
think about the time involved here you

1899
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:27,120
know in 1945 we were late 1945 we were

1900
01:11:31,510 --> 01:11:28,560
getting the very early indications that

1901
01:11:33,750 --> 01:11:31,520
there was this massive soviet espionage

1902
01:11:36,550 --> 01:11:33,760
effort going on we knew that from from

1903
01:11:39,030 --> 01:11:36,560
defectors from whistleblowers and from a

1904
01:11:42,149 --> 01:11:39,040
soviet code clerk that defected in

1905
01:11:44,390 --> 01:11:42,159
ottawa and we were worried

1906
01:11:45,430 --> 01:11:44,400
when i say we i mean those who were in

1907
01:11:47,430 --> 01:11:45,440
the community at the time the

1908
01:11:49,030 --> 01:11:47,440
intelligence community who were worried

1909
01:11:51,350 --> 01:11:49,040
that there was a there was communist

1910
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:51,360
infiltrate infiltration going on now we

1911
01:11:53,910 --> 01:11:52,640
have all these spies running around that

1912
01:11:56,310 --> 01:11:53,920
we don't know about and we got to do

1913
01:11:58,310 --> 01:11:56,320
something we have to mop these spies up

1914
01:12:01,270 --> 01:11:58,320
so i think that the planning for these

1915
01:12:03,910 --> 01:12:01,280
deceptions happened in late 45

1916
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:03,920
it was crystallized in 46. it started

1917
01:12:09,510 --> 01:12:07,040
with the ghost rockets bled over into 47

1918
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:09,520
into mori island and into roswell

1919
01:12:13,910 --> 01:12:11,600
and kenneth arnold curt there are a lot

1920
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:13,920
of questions from our forum from

1921
01:12:17,270 --> 01:12:15,360
listeners who are just really curious

1922
01:12:18,790 --> 01:12:17,280
about the work of james carrion can you

1923
01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:18,800
start asking a few

1924
01:12:24,070 --> 01:12:21,840
as soon as i get one of my own burning

1925
01:12:26,790 --> 01:12:24,080
questions then before we go go too much

1926
01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:26,800
further both your rosetta deception and

1927
01:12:29,669 --> 01:12:28,239
the roswell book it looks like they're

1928
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:29,679
going to cover the same type of things

1929
01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:31,199
and one thing i noticed about the

1930
01:12:35,910 --> 01:12:33,840
rosetta deception was that even if

1931
01:12:39,030 --> 01:12:35,920
you are readerless to disagree with your

1932
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:39,040
premise you laid out several cases

1933
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:40,800
you know many instances of military

1934
01:12:45,189 --> 01:12:43,040
operations deception that were just just

1935
01:12:47,430 --> 01:12:45,199
history now and you use them as an

1936
01:12:49,110 --> 01:12:47,440
example of the kind of operations but to

1937
01:12:51,430 --> 01:12:49,120
present that as contrast to so many

1938
01:12:53,350 --> 01:12:51,440
other books where if the premise falls

1939
01:12:54,870 --> 01:12:53,360
flat you might as well throw the whole

1940
01:12:57,270 --> 01:12:54,880
book away but i think there was quite a

1941
01:12:59,590 --> 01:12:57,280
bit of value even if someone disagrees

1942
01:13:01,669 --> 01:12:59,600
with your with your overall premise

1943
01:13:02,630 --> 01:13:01,679
i would say that even if you don't agree

1944
01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:02,640
with

1945
01:13:06,870 --> 01:13:04,640
my theory about code breaking or the

1946
01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:06,880
counter intelligence aspect of this if

1947
01:13:09,830 --> 01:13:09,040
if anything the book is a good primer on

1948
01:13:12,790 --> 01:13:09,840
on

1949
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:12,800
this uh part of the of of us

1950
01:13:15,830 --> 01:13:14,480
intelligence history a lot of folks

1951
01:13:17,590 --> 01:13:15,840
don't know about because there's not not

1952
01:13:19,510 --> 01:13:17,600
a lot written about it you know we're

1953
01:13:21,990 --> 01:13:19,520
talking about what i call the wild west

1954
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:22,000
of of us intelligence this was right

1955
01:13:25,510 --> 01:13:23,600
after world war ii

1956
01:13:27,669 --> 01:13:25,520
like i said the the oss was being

1957
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:27,679
disbanded there was a lot of jockeying

1958
01:13:32,390 --> 01:13:30,640
around between the military agencies and

1959
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:32,400
uh you know a new civilian agency that

1960
01:13:36,709 --> 01:13:34,159
was coming into being being

1961
01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:36,719
to uh find out who was going to emerge

1962
01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:38,560
as the new intelligence agency the

1963
01:13:42,070 --> 01:13:40,560
premier intelligence agency you know

1964
01:13:44,310 --> 01:13:42,080
which eventually obviously became the

1965
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:44,320
central intelligence agency cia so it

1966
01:13:49,030 --> 01:13:47,040
was right within that very specific time

1967
01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:49,040
period that we have all of this going on

1968
01:13:52,709 --> 01:13:50,800
i don't think that's a coincidence

1969
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:52,719
without further ado uh this one comes

1970
01:13:56,790 --> 01:13:54,880
from wade risdale and i think we're

1971
01:13:59,030 --> 01:13:56,800
going to have to almost break this into

1972
01:14:01,030 --> 01:13:59,040
two parts but uh he

1973
01:14:03,270 --> 01:14:01,040
he's addressing the events that you're

1974
01:14:05,510 --> 01:14:03,280
you're talking about um roswell and

1975
01:14:07,189 --> 01:14:05,520
maury island he said the first uh four

1976
01:14:09,510 --> 01:14:07,199
big events happen in a short a pretty

1977
01:14:11,030 --> 01:14:09,520
short time frame and this suggests to me

1978
01:14:12,950 --> 01:14:11,040
from the very start that military

1979
01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:12,960
intelligence felt the need to start

1980
01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:15,199
duping the american public and i think

1981
01:14:19,510 --> 01:14:17,280
we'll can agree on that part now this is

1982
01:14:22,430 --> 01:14:19,520
where it gets tricky he says

1983
01:14:24,550 --> 01:14:22,440
in so doing created and propagated the

1984
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:24,560
extraterrestrial meme why do you think

1985
01:14:29,030 --> 01:14:27,120
this is so uh he goes on to say that

1986
01:14:31,750 --> 01:14:29,040
with the soviets there were already

1987
01:14:34,630 --> 01:14:31,760
plenty of boogeymen on the planet to to

1988
01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:34,640
get us afraid if manipulating us was the

1989
01:14:38,870 --> 01:14:37,840
was the idea so if you can address that

1990
01:14:40,950 --> 01:14:38,880
sure

1991
01:14:43,350 --> 01:14:40,960
you know honestly i don't think that the

1992
01:14:45,270 --> 01:14:43,360
deception planners had any thought of

1993
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:45,280
this becoming an extraterrestrial theme

1994
01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:46,800
i don't think they actually had a tie-in

1995
01:14:51,910 --> 01:14:49,360
between what they were perpetrating and

1996
01:14:53,189 --> 01:14:51,920
uh this being from outer space or little

1997
01:14:54,870 --> 01:14:53,199
green man or

1998
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:54,880
people from other planets

1999
01:14:58,870 --> 01:14:56,400
they were really trying to portray this

2000
01:15:00,229 --> 01:14:58,880
as as u.s advanced technology that's

2001
01:15:02,550 --> 01:15:00,239
what their interest was in getting the

2002
01:15:03,750 --> 01:15:02,560
russians involved and getting the

2003
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:03,760
interest of the russians involved i

2004
01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:05,280
don't think they really saw this as some

2005
01:15:09,669 --> 01:15:07,120
runaway viral thing that was going to

2006
01:15:11,350 --> 01:15:09,679
happen that would you know spawn

2007
01:15:13,510 --> 01:15:11,360
countless movies and books in later

2008
01:15:15,110 --> 01:15:13,520
years they were they really were focused

2009
01:15:16,870 --> 01:15:15,120
on let's let's try to convince the

2010
01:15:18,070 --> 01:15:16,880
russians we have something they don't

2011
01:15:19,510 --> 01:15:18,080
that really has nothing to do with

2012
01:15:21,990 --> 01:15:19,520
extraterrestrial all this all this

2013
01:15:24,709 --> 01:15:22,000
extraterrestrial hypothesis and

2014
01:15:26,390 --> 01:15:24,719
association came much later the uh i

2015
01:15:28,709 --> 01:15:26,400
would agree with that i recently read a

2016
01:15:30,950 --> 01:15:28,719
lot of ufo history and it seems like

2017
01:15:33,430 --> 01:15:30,960
although there were some people that

2018
01:15:34,470 --> 01:15:33,440
considered the idea it was really much

2019
01:15:37,270 --> 01:15:34,480
uh

2020
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:37,280
well a bit later at least in 48 where

2021
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:40,320
where the uh the the charles whited

2022
01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:41,760
siding where they couldn't explain

2023
01:15:45,030 --> 01:15:44,320
unless it was a rocket ship or spaceship

2024
01:15:46,070 --> 01:15:45,040
so

2025
01:15:47,590 --> 01:15:46,080
uh

2026
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:47,600
it was

2027
01:15:52,229 --> 01:15:50,239
spacemen were not the very first thought

2028
01:15:54,390 --> 01:15:52,239
solution when when kenneth arnold came

2029
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:54,400
on well even to kenneth arnold remember

2030
01:15:59,430 --> 01:15:56,960
when he his his own self-explanation of

2031
01:16:01,750 --> 01:15:59,440
what he saw was i thought they were some

2032
01:16:03,669 --> 01:16:01,760
some secret project that the u.s was

2033
01:16:07,030 --> 01:16:03,679
experimenting with and a lot of folks

2034
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:07,040
early on in the in 1947 we're saying oh

2035
01:16:11,270 --> 01:16:09,120
what could this possibly be maybe some

2036
01:16:12,870 --> 01:16:11,280
high-tech project the us is working on

2037
01:16:16,070 --> 01:16:12,880
the association or the overwhelming

2038
01:16:17,990 --> 01:16:16,080
association with with something alien

2039
01:16:21,030 --> 01:16:18,000
again didn't start coming until after

2040
01:16:23,270 --> 01:16:21,040
that we've got more questions to come

2041
01:16:25,830 --> 01:16:23,280
asked by our guest co-host kurt collins

2042
01:16:29,790 --> 01:16:25,840
i'm gene steinberg james carrion will be

2043
01:16:37,270 --> 01:16:29,800
back in a moment you're in the paracast

2044
01:16:42,630 --> 01:16:39,910
the nation's largest independently owned

2045
01:16:47,270 --> 01:16:42,640
and operated talk radio network the

2046
01:16:49,110 --> 01:16:47,280
genesis communications network g c n

2047
01:16:51,510 --> 01:16:49,120
graphic converter is the image

2048
01:16:54,390 --> 01:16:51,520
manipulation tool for the rest of us it

2049
01:16:56,470 --> 01:16:54,400
does not use any database you get full

2050
01:16:59,030 --> 01:16:56,480
control of all your files want to view

2051
01:17:01,830 --> 01:16:59,040
the images of a folder drag it into

2052
01:17:04,149 --> 01:17:01,840
graphic inverter and a powerful browser

2053
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:04,159
opens up to show your image files you

2054
01:17:08,550 --> 01:17:06,239
could use it for slideshows you could

2055
01:17:11,030 --> 01:17:08,560
use it to import images from digital

2056
01:17:13,030 --> 01:17:11,040
cameras or from scanners need to do some

2057
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image editing you can do that too in

2058
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graphic inverter also print catalogs

2059
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convert from so many formats i can't

2060
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even list them download now to see if

2061
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graphic inverter is good for you like

2062
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2063
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2064
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2065
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2066
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to get a special price for graphic

2067
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2068
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2069
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attention listeners survivallife.com is

2070
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2071
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2072
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2073
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2074
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it will still throw a spark it's built

2075
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2076
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and it is good for 15 000 strike

2077
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2078
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again that's

2079
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2080
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2081
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2088
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2089
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2090
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2091
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2095
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2096
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2097
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2098
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2099
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2100
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2101
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2102
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2103
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2106
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the freeze dry guy is offering a wide

2107
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2108
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2109
01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:14,000
packaged entrees remember meats

2110
01:19:17,830 --> 01:19:16,080
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2111
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2112
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2114
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2115
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2116
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2117
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remember this is limited to stock on

2118
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2119
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for survival food in an uncertain world

2120
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you pick up the receiver with your heart

2121
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racing and sweat dripping from your

2122
01:19:54,709 --> 01:19:53,280
forehead you finally muster the courage

2123
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:54,719
to dial the number to call into your

2124
01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:57,120
favorite talk radio show it rings once

2125
01:20:00,790 --> 01:19:59,679
twice and then hello it's gcn what's

2126
01:20:02,550 --> 01:20:00,800
your name in the state you're calling

2127
01:20:04,790 --> 01:20:02,560
from surprised you got through you

2128
01:20:06,790 --> 01:20:04,800
squeak out jason from minnesota please

2129
01:20:08,709 --> 01:20:06,800
hold as you patiently wait for your turn

2130
01:20:10,630 --> 01:20:08,719
you begin to daydream about being a

2131
01:20:13,110 --> 01:20:10,640
famous talk radio host and what it would

2132
01:20:14,310 --> 01:20:13,120
be like to have your own show jason from

2133
01:20:16,390 --> 01:20:14,320
minnesota

2134
01:20:22,990 --> 01:20:16,400
millions of loyal listeners worldwide

2135
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:26,470
[Applause]

2136
01:20:26,480 --> 01:20:31,990
okay we gotta move on to the next caller

2137
01:20:36,550 --> 01:20:33,430
with the host you're listening to right

2138
01:20:38,310 --> 01:20:36,560
now online at gcnlive.com click on the

2139
01:20:40,709 --> 01:20:38,320
community link engage with other

2140
01:20:42,870 --> 01:20:40,719
listeners ask questions start debates

2141
01:20:44,950 --> 01:20:42,880
don't agree with the host let them know

2142
01:20:55,910 --> 01:20:44,960
be a part of the community at

2143
01:20:58,790 --> 01:20:57,750
hi this is tracy tormey screenwriter

2144
01:21:01,590 --> 01:20:58,800
producer you're listening to the

2145
01:21:06,709 --> 01:21:01,600
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

2146
01:21:11,350 --> 01:21:08,870
we're exploring the research that james

2147
01:21:14,149 --> 01:21:11,360
carrion has done into the early ufo

2148
01:21:15,990 --> 01:21:14,159
history and the activities by counter

2149
01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:16,000
intelligence in the u.s

2150
01:21:19,830 --> 01:21:18,000
a lot more questions from our listeners

2151
01:21:21,750 --> 01:21:19,840
our co-host this week is kurt collins

2152
01:21:23,590 --> 01:21:21,760
kurt you have more questions

2153
01:21:25,830 --> 01:21:23,600
there's quite a few here's another one

2154
01:21:28,390 --> 01:21:25,840
from wade that ties in with uh with what

2155
01:21:29,990 --> 01:21:28,400
we're talking about it seems like some

2156
01:21:32,229 --> 01:21:30,000
of the events were

2157
01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:32,239
manipulated and some of the information

2158
01:21:39,189 --> 01:21:34,719
about events were manipulated but he

2159
01:21:42,229 --> 01:21:39,199
asks is there any ufo case you found

2160
01:21:43,669 --> 01:21:42,239
that seemed a genuine sincere intriguing

2161
01:21:47,030 --> 01:21:43,679
but may have been polluted by

2162
01:21:49,750 --> 01:21:47,040
disinformation agents or even by people

2163
01:21:51,669 --> 01:21:49,760
perhaps he's talking about ufologists

2164
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:51,679
who muddied the waters in an effort to

2165
01:21:55,110 --> 01:21:53,760
make it look like a better case well

2166
01:21:57,350 --> 01:21:55,120
there i mean there are some historical

2167
01:21:58,870 --> 01:21:57,360
cases that again i i was not the

2168
01:22:00,870 --> 01:21:58,880
original investigator so i don't know

2169
01:22:02,470 --> 01:22:00,880
how i never had you know interview the

2170
01:22:03,669 --> 01:22:02,480
first hand witnesses but there are some

2171
01:22:04,950 --> 01:22:03,679
historical cases that are very

2172
01:22:07,590 --> 01:22:04,960
intriguing

2173
01:22:09,590 --> 01:22:07,600
anything from portage county ohio to

2174
01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:09,600
even the cash landrum incident

2175
01:22:13,030 --> 01:22:11,760
uh which i i find to be intriguing based

2176
01:22:15,750 --> 01:22:13,040
on based on the evidence that was

2177
01:22:17,430 --> 01:22:15,760
presented as far as those being muddied

2178
01:22:19,910 --> 01:22:17,440
i i would you'd have to look at portage

2179
01:22:22,709 --> 01:22:19,920
county you know this happened in the 60s

2180
01:22:24,790 --> 01:22:22,719
and then here you know later on

2181
01:22:26,790 --> 01:22:24,800
this happened during my tenure as as

2182
01:22:28,790 --> 01:22:26,800
mufon international director we have

2183
01:22:30,950 --> 01:22:28,800
someone coming forward saying hey i have

2184
01:22:32,790 --> 01:22:30,960
some new evidence to support that case

2185
01:22:35,430 --> 01:22:32,800
and you know we let this person come and

2186
01:22:37,590 --> 01:22:35,440
speak at the mufun symposium he sounded

2187
01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:37,600
sincere he had some interesting evidence

2188
01:22:43,030 --> 01:22:39,600
to back up his story he didn't sound

2189
01:22:44,390 --> 01:22:43,040
like any reason to lie but as you know

2190
01:22:46,629 --> 01:22:44,400
again like i said as these elements of

2191
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:46,639
human deception are slowly start to

2192
01:22:50,229 --> 01:22:48,719
start to introduce themselves when i did

2193
01:22:51,750 --> 01:22:50,239
a very thorough investigation on this

2194
01:22:54,470 --> 01:22:51,760
person i found out that his story began

2195
01:22:56,149 --> 01:22:54,480
to unravel and that really all this new

2196
01:22:58,790 --> 01:22:56,159
evidence was not new evidence at all it

2197
01:23:00,390 --> 01:22:58,800
was simply a you can label it a hoax you

2198
01:23:02,550 --> 01:23:00,400
can label it as deception i don't know

2199
01:23:04,950 --> 01:23:02,560
why this person decided to do this

2200
01:23:06,790 --> 01:23:04,960
but all of his story was garbage so here

2201
01:23:09,270 --> 01:23:06,800
we have what used would start off as a

2202
01:23:10,709 --> 01:23:09,280
very interesting historical case that

2203
01:23:12,709 --> 01:23:10,719
later on someone tries the muddy the

2204
01:23:14,470 --> 01:23:12,719
waters about we can use roswell in the

2205
01:23:17,830 --> 01:23:14,480
same from the same perspective because

2206
01:23:19,430 --> 01:23:17,840
roswell happened back in in 1947 and

2207
01:23:21,669 --> 01:23:19,440
then what happens later on with these

2208
01:23:23,590 --> 01:23:21,679
mj12 documents that come out you know

2209
01:23:25,270 --> 01:23:23,600
again somebody put these documents

2210
01:23:27,510 --> 01:23:25,280
together somebody researched somebody

2211
01:23:29,430 --> 01:23:27,520
had to go in there and and forge them if

2212
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:29,440
they're forgeries who did it why did

2213
01:23:32,790 --> 01:23:31,280
they do it what is their motivation

2214
01:23:35,430 --> 01:23:32,800
there's somebody muddying the waters

2215
01:23:37,110 --> 01:23:35,440
here and a lot of times folks folks will

2216
01:23:38,950 --> 01:23:37,120
say oh there's a money angle to it is

2217
01:23:40,470 --> 01:23:38,960
somebody trying to

2218
01:23:42,149 --> 01:23:40,480
simply make money off of this i don't

2219
01:23:44,070 --> 01:23:42,159
buy that there's a human deception part

2220
01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:44,080
to this and that human deception goes

2221
01:23:48,390 --> 01:23:46,159
back to the intelligence agencies that

2222
01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:48,400
answered stan denise this question so

2223
01:23:53,189 --> 01:23:50,560
we'll be moving on to open-minded

2224
01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:53,199
earthlings there are a few more roswell

2225
01:23:57,669 --> 01:23:55,120
questions and this is about the nature

2226
01:24:00,550 --> 01:23:57,679
of the crash itself do you think it's

2227
01:24:02,870 --> 01:24:00,560
possible roswell was a crash of some

2228
01:24:04,229 --> 01:24:02,880
top-secret aircraft a prototype or

2229
01:24:07,590 --> 01:24:04,239
secret design

2230
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:07,600
that just crashed and was covered up

2231
01:24:11,910 --> 01:24:10,400
the basic question is what do you think

2232
01:24:14,070 --> 01:24:11,920
crashed and how was the information

2233
01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:14,080
manipulated well i don't i don't

2234
01:24:16,950 --> 01:24:15,520
necessarily think we really know so

2235
01:24:18,629 --> 01:24:16,960
whether something crashed or not we know

2236
01:24:20,550 --> 01:24:18,639
that debris was found

2237
01:24:22,870 --> 01:24:20,560
um there you know the thing with roswell

2238
01:24:25,350 --> 01:24:22,880
is there are so many alleged witnesses

2239
01:24:27,350 --> 01:24:25,360
and eyewitnesses and first-hand

2240
01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:27,360
second-hand information out there it's

2241
01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:29,760
really hard to sort fact from fiction in

2242
01:24:34,709 --> 01:24:32,400
this case and then as i said the later

2243
01:24:35,990 --> 01:24:34,719
uh the later introduction of evidence

2244
01:24:37,510 --> 01:24:36,000
that just muddies the water further

2245
01:24:39,990 --> 01:24:37,520
really doesn't help it

2246
01:24:42,470 --> 01:24:40,000
here's the thing about roswell that

2247
01:24:44,229 --> 01:24:42,480
simply stinks to high heaven for me

2248
01:24:45,910 --> 01:24:44,239
and i come from a military intelligence

2249
01:24:47,510 --> 01:24:45,920
background one of the first things they

2250
01:24:49,430 --> 01:24:47,520
tell you in military intelligence is

2251
01:24:50,870 --> 01:24:49,440
keep your mouth shut

2252
01:24:53,669 --> 01:24:50,880
right the last thing you want to do if

2253
01:24:55,910 --> 01:24:53,679
you're trying to do something in secret

2254
01:24:57,910 --> 01:24:55,920
is to draw attention to it

2255
01:24:59,510 --> 01:24:57,920
so the this the fact that something

2256
01:25:01,510 --> 01:24:59,520
allegedly crashed around outside of

2257
01:25:03,510 --> 01:25:01,520
roswell the military recovered it and

2258
01:25:05,590 --> 01:25:03,520
then they put out a press release

2259
01:25:07,030 --> 01:25:05,600
and not only this wasn't a press release

2260
01:25:08,550 --> 01:25:07,040
from you know the local national guard

2261
01:25:10,790 --> 01:25:08,560
unit it was a press release from the

2262
01:25:12,310 --> 01:25:10,800
509th bomber group we're talking about

2263
01:25:13,669 --> 01:25:12,320
the folks that dropped the atomic bomb

2264
01:25:15,750 --> 01:25:13,679
in japan

2265
01:25:17,510 --> 01:25:15,760
highly intelligent

2266
01:25:19,430 --> 01:25:17,520
hand-picked folks they had to have

2267
01:25:21,189 --> 01:25:19,440
security clearances because of the

2268
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:21,199
nature of their job and you're telling

2269
01:25:24,390 --> 01:25:22,239
me they're going to put out a press

2270
01:25:25,990 --> 01:25:24,400
release on this that does not make any

2271
01:25:29,030 --> 01:25:26,000
sense from a military intelligence

2272
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:29,040
perspective you don't cover something up

2273
01:25:33,110 --> 01:25:31,120
by drawing attention to it you cover

2274
01:25:34,870 --> 01:25:33,120
something up by keeping your mouth shut

2275
01:25:36,950 --> 01:25:34,880
and you can try to explain it away in

2276
01:25:38,950 --> 01:25:36,960
any number of other reasons even for

2277
01:25:40,470 --> 01:25:38,960
example when when we exploded the first

2278
01:25:42,149 --> 01:25:40,480
atomic bomb at trinity

2279
01:25:43,830 --> 01:25:42,159
there was a cover story already in place

2280
01:25:45,910 --> 01:25:43,840
for that the cover story was there was

2281
01:25:47,990 --> 01:25:45,920
an ammo dump that blew up so if

2282
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:48,000
something got out to the public and the

2283
01:25:51,669 --> 01:25:49,520
public started questioning why you know

2284
01:25:53,590 --> 01:25:51,679
what blew up they already had a way to

2285
01:25:55,910 --> 01:25:53,600
cover that up the fact that somebody

2286
01:25:57,750 --> 01:25:55,920
found some debris outside roswell

2287
01:25:59,750 --> 01:25:57,760
doesn't tell me doesn't make any sense

2288
01:26:01,830 --> 01:25:59,760
in terms of putting out a press release

2289
01:26:04,149 --> 01:26:01,840
that goes worldwide draws instant

2290
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:04,159
attention to this event and and and

2291
01:26:07,750 --> 01:26:05,760
draws the you know all of these

2292
01:26:09,669 --> 01:26:07,760
interested media you know hounds that

2293
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:09,679
come in and they make it this big news

2294
01:26:13,030 --> 01:26:12,000
event that's not the way you cover up an

2295
01:26:14,950 --> 01:26:13,040
event

2296
01:26:17,830 --> 01:26:14,960
do you ever think here and this may be

2297
01:26:20,149 --> 01:26:17,840
the reason why you had the denial in the

2298
01:26:23,030 --> 01:26:20,159
afternoon oh no was only a balloon that

2299
01:26:24,709 --> 01:26:23,040
somebody just screwed up somebody may be

2300
01:26:26,870 --> 01:26:24,719
looking for attention

2301
01:26:29,510 --> 01:26:26,880
posted this thing made it public they

2302
01:26:32,390 --> 01:26:29,520
were said what the heck did you do that

2303
01:26:34,470 --> 01:26:32,400
was a dumb decision and that's why they

2304
01:26:37,350 --> 01:26:34,480
had to have the announcement that it

2305
01:26:39,110 --> 01:26:37,360
really wasn't a crash disk after all i i

2306
01:26:40,629 --> 01:26:39,120
would accept that again if the unit that

2307
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:40,639
put out the press release was the local

2308
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:42,719
national guard unit but not the 509

2309
01:26:46,709 --> 01:26:44,960
bomber group that simply doesn't fly

2310
01:26:49,030 --> 01:26:46,719
so there had to be a legitimate purpose

2311
01:26:50,709 --> 01:26:49,040
to put that out absolutely i think you

2312
01:26:51,990 --> 01:26:50,719
can i was uh you know i was really

2313
01:26:54,149 --> 01:26:52,000
trying to find this interview the later

2314
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:54,159
day in my research uh

2315
01:26:57,270 --> 01:26:55,600
it was uh i think it was an interview

2316
01:26:59,030 --> 01:26:57,280
done with the uh one of the radio

2317
01:27:01,030 --> 01:26:59,040
announcers in roswell

2318
01:27:02,870 --> 01:27:01,040
where when the press release was

2319
01:27:05,189 --> 01:27:02,880
delivered i think it was was delivered

2320
01:27:05,910 --> 01:27:05,199
to him he actually questioned putting it

2321
01:27:10,470 --> 01:27:05,920
out

2322
01:27:12,310 --> 01:27:10,480
make any sense

2323
01:27:13,990 --> 01:27:12,320
so so here you have a civilian

2324
01:27:15,990 --> 01:27:14,000
questioning a military guy about a press

2325
01:27:18,229 --> 01:27:16,000
release being put out to me that tells

2326
01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:18,239
me it was put out on purpose not for the

2327
01:27:21,590 --> 01:27:19,920
reasons that most people in this field

2328
01:27:23,750 --> 01:27:21,600
think it is i think it was put out as

2329
01:27:24,870 --> 01:27:23,760
part of this deception operation they

2330
01:27:26,870 --> 01:27:24,880
really needed to make this thing go

2331
01:27:29,350 --> 01:27:26,880
viral

2332
01:27:32,149 --> 01:27:29,360
one thing on that is that um

2333
01:27:34,470 --> 01:27:32,159
we we often get confused by our modern

2334
01:27:36,870 --> 01:27:34,480
definition of what flying saucer is and

2335
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:36,880
at the time it was just a general term

2336
01:27:43,350 --> 01:27:40,159
for a mysterious flying thing and so

2337
01:27:45,830 --> 01:27:43,360
it it we may get more excited over this

2338
01:27:48,149 --> 01:27:45,840
old newspaper clipping then it really is

2339
01:27:50,870 --> 01:27:48,159
worth and we're putting bringing all our

2340
01:27:52,790 --> 01:27:50,880
baggage and and stanton friedman's

2341
01:27:55,430 --> 01:27:52,800
version of a flying saucer when we see

2342
01:27:56,950 --> 01:27:55,440
that and it just it didn't necessarily

2343
01:27:58,830 --> 01:27:56,960
mean

2344
01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:58,840
near what it does

2345
01:28:03,830 --> 01:28:01,520
today well yeah i would agree and not to

2346
01:28:05,830 --> 01:28:03,840
mention that you know ufology loves to

2347
01:28:08,229 --> 01:28:05,840
gloss over evidence

2348
01:28:10,310 --> 01:28:08,239
when it doesn't fit they simply discard

2349
01:28:12,310 --> 01:28:10,320
it so if we look for example at what

2350
01:28:15,430 --> 01:28:12,320
happened what's happening you know right

2351
01:28:16,790 --> 01:28:15,440
after ken kenford sighting and all of

2352
01:28:18,870 --> 01:28:16,800
these saucers were being seen all over

2353
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:18,880
the united states they failed to point

2354
01:28:23,669 --> 01:28:20,800
out all the new stories about things

2355
01:28:25,910 --> 01:28:23,679
that were found besides roswell like for

2356
01:28:27,990 --> 01:28:25,920
example down in texas we're on a beach

2357
01:28:29,830 --> 01:28:28,000
this disc supposedly washed up and

2358
01:28:33,110 --> 01:28:29,840
written on it said property of the of

2359
01:28:35,110 --> 01:28:33,120
the u.s army air force uh if found call

2360
01:28:37,189 --> 01:28:35,120
spokane washington and call this one

2361
01:28:38,950 --> 01:28:37,199
particular colonel and report it because

2362
01:28:40,390 --> 01:28:38,960
it's a top secret project

2363
01:28:42,229 --> 01:28:40,400
why isn't that a re-mentioned by the

2364
01:28:45,030 --> 01:28:42,239
ufologist because it doesn't fit their

2365
01:28:46,709 --> 01:28:45,040
et hypothesis it does fit it'll fit a

2366
01:28:48,629 --> 01:28:46,719
human deception theory but not their

2367
01:28:50,790 --> 01:28:48,639
hypothesis

2368
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:50,800
or let's take for example the uh the

2369
01:28:55,189 --> 01:28:52,880
battle of la right when a lot of

2370
01:28:56,790 --> 01:28:55,199
ufologists gloss over it's just a couple

2371
01:28:58,229 --> 01:28:56,800
of days before that

2372
01:29:00,149 --> 01:28:58,239
there were a couple of japanese

2373
01:29:01,669 --> 01:29:00,159
submarines that surfaced off the coast

2374
01:29:04,070 --> 01:29:01,679
of california started shelling and

2375
01:29:05,910 --> 01:29:04,080
shelling the beach and chilling the dock

2376
01:29:08,070 --> 01:29:05,920
so what's more what's more plausible

2377
01:29:10,550 --> 01:29:08,080
that were vis that there was an et craft

2378
01:29:12,550 --> 01:29:10,560
flying over los angeles or was it just

2379
01:29:14,070 --> 01:29:12,560
folks that had war nerves because they

2380
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:14,080
had just received their first beating

2381
01:29:17,350 --> 01:29:16,080
from the japanese this was the only time

2382
01:29:21,430 --> 01:29:17,360
the japanese had actually attacked our

2383
01:29:25,750 --> 01:29:24,229
i've got another roswell question here

2384
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:25,760
this is actually something i think that

2385
01:29:30,390 --> 01:29:29,040
you tackled in the forums but uh i think

2386
01:29:34,550 --> 01:29:30,400
that the listeners would be interested

2387
01:29:36,709 --> 01:29:34,560
in this uh this is from uh ken kores

2388
01:29:40,070 --> 01:29:36,719
where brigadier general's exxon and

2389
01:29:42,870 --> 01:29:40,080
dubose lying in telling that roswell was

2390
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:42,880
an extraterrestrial event

2391
01:29:46,629 --> 01:29:44,639
you know some maybe the same person who

2392
01:29:48,550 --> 01:29:46,639
posted on the on the forum

2393
01:29:51,350 --> 01:29:48,560
but i asked the question

2394
01:29:53,189 --> 01:29:51,360
i asked my response was

2395
01:29:54,790 --> 01:29:53,199
do you have an affidavit is there an

2396
01:29:56,070 --> 01:29:54,800
affidavit that actually says that these

2397
01:29:58,070 --> 01:29:56,080
two generals said that they were this

2398
01:29:59,750 --> 01:29:58,080
was an extraterrestrial craft i never

2399
01:30:01,350 --> 01:29:59,760
got a response to that

2400
01:30:02,950 --> 01:30:01,360
there there's been rumors and you know

2401
01:30:05,990 --> 01:30:02,960
there was an investigator whose claim

2402
01:30:08,229 --> 01:30:06,000
that he had interviewed the general and

2403
01:30:10,550 --> 01:30:08,239
one of the generals and he was told this

2404
01:30:14,550 --> 01:30:10,560
is all hearsay what i'd like to see is a

2405
01:30:18,629 --> 01:30:17,110
and there was uh

2406
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:18,639
there's some general questions about

2407
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:21,840
about ufology and the understanding the

2408
01:30:26,550 --> 01:30:23,760
nature of the event we'll get into the

2409
01:30:28,470 --> 01:30:26,560
general questions and so much more our

2410
01:30:31,189 --> 01:30:28,480
guest co-host is kurt collins we have

2411
01:30:37,270 --> 01:30:31,199
james carrion and gene steinberg you're

2412
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:40,310
great minds think alive the network for

2413
01:30:47,350 --> 01:30:42,960
the independent minded the genesis

2414
01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:47,360
communications network g c n

2415
01:30:51,189 --> 01:30:49,120
first game attack of the rockoids and it

2416
01:30:52,470 --> 01:30:51,199
was a critically acclaimed success and

2417
01:30:54,390 --> 01:30:52,480
now there is the coming of the

2418
01:30:56,629 --> 01:30:54,400
protectors a former military

2419
01:30:58,790 --> 01:30:56,639
intelligence man is contacted by a space

2420
01:31:01,430 --> 01:30:58,800
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

2421
01:31:02,950 --> 01:31:01,440
to be a nightmare because evil forces on

2422
01:31:05,189 --> 01:31:02,960
our distant planet are planning to

2423
01:31:07,750 --> 01:31:05,199
conquer the earth this is gripping

2424
01:31:09,590 --> 01:31:07,760
science fiction of the classic kind

2425
01:31:11,629 --> 01:31:09,600
attack of the rochoids and the coming of

2426
01:31:13,830 --> 01:31:11,639
the protectors find out more at

2427
01:31:16,950 --> 01:31:13,840
rockoids.com that's rockoids

2428
01:31:21,830 --> 01:31:18,790
so here's what happened i was placing an

2429
01:31:24,070 --> 01:31:21,840
order online the site went down it took

2430
01:31:25,830 --> 01:31:24,080
hours before it returned but i'd already

2431
01:31:27,830 --> 01:31:25,840
placed the order with another company if

2432
01:31:29,669 --> 01:31:27,840
your site goes down you could lose

2433
01:31:31,750 --> 01:31:29,679
business and if you have a business or

2434
01:31:34,629 --> 01:31:31,760
personal site you'll want to know it's

2435
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2436
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2440
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2442
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2443
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2444
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maintain our independence

2445
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2446
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2447
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2448
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is where do we begin

2449
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2450
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2453
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2454
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2455
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2456
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2457
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2458
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2459
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2460
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2461
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2462
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2463
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2464
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ouch my back is out again hi dr ortman

2465
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with wellspring spinal care if you're

2466
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2467
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this information is for you one of the

2468
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2469
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receive their typical adjustment only

2470
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2471
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2472
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2473
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2474
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2475
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2476
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2477
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2479
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2480
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2481
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2482
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2483
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2484
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2485
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2486
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2487
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2488
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2489
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we all know that berkey water

2490
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purification systems are the most

2491
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2492
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2493
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2494
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2495
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2496
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2499
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2500
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2501
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2502
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2504
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2506
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2507
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charge with the purchase of a berkey

2508
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light the berkey guy is also offering a

2509
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set of fluoride and arsenic filters for

2510
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only 39.99 that's over 30 percent off

2511
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1-877-886-3653 that's

2512
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goberky.com today

2513
01:34:59,510 --> 01:34:57,350
hi this is bryce abel i'm the producer

2514
01:35:01,270 --> 01:34:59,520
of dark skies the co-author of a.d after

2515
01:35:04,629 --> 01:35:01,280
disclosure and you are listening to the

2516
01:35:05,970 --> 01:35:04,639
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

2517
01:35:09,669 --> 01:35:05,980
radio

2518
01:35:14,390 --> 01:35:11,750
james carrion is here and we're

2519
01:35:16,870 --> 01:35:14,400
progressing for another five segments to

2520
01:35:19,110 --> 01:35:16,880
discuss all his research

2521
01:35:21,830 --> 01:35:19,120
obviously focus a lot on early

2522
01:35:25,189 --> 01:35:21,840
intelligence activities that may have

2523
01:35:26,470 --> 01:35:25,199
happened in place of perceived ufo

2524
01:35:28,629 --> 01:35:26,480
events

2525
01:35:29,189 --> 01:35:28,639
intriguing it's also intriguing if you

2526
01:35:33,990 --> 01:35:29,199
go to

2527
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we have another radio show called after

2528
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2529
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2530
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2531
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to the powercast plus at

2532
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2533
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check it out we also give you the ad

2534
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2535
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2536
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2537
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2539
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2540
01:36:02,070 --> 01:35:59,360
tricksters by chris o'brien so let's

2541
01:36:05,189 --> 01:36:02,080
continue kurt collins more questions

2542
01:36:07,750 --> 01:36:05,199
this sounds like uh a jag valet fan uh

2543
01:36:10,070 --> 01:36:07,760
this is a open-minded earthling again he

2544
01:36:12,550 --> 01:36:10,080
says humans have a long history of being

2545
01:36:14,629 --> 01:36:12,560
interested in strange scoured objects

2546
01:36:17,030 --> 01:36:14,639
otherworldly beings for religious and

2547
01:36:19,189 --> 01:36:17,040
spiritual belief systems many of these

2548
01:36:21,510 --> 01:36:19,199
beliefs have been vanquished by science

2549
01:36:23,590 --> 01:36:21,520
but now the old flying saucer concept is

2550
01:36:26,070 --> 01:36:23,600
dying out too the youth is going in

2551
01:36:27,990 --> 01:36:26,080
another direction with newer quantum

2552
01:36:30,229 --> 01:36:28,000
multi-dimensional and information

2553
01:36:32,390 --> 01:36:30,239
science concepts it's the new

2554
01:36:34,870 --> 01:36:32,400
metaphorical wording to describe what

2555
01:36:36,950 --> 01:36:34,880
humans have always been thinking about

2556
01:36:39,350 --> 01:36:36,960
comments well you know i don't know if

2557
01:36:41,669 --> 01:36:39,360
it's dying out i think that

2558
01:36:43,669 --> 01:36:41,679
newer generations you know they maybe

2559
01:36:45,270 --> 01:36:43,679
they associate ufology with their with

2560
01:36:46,629 --> 01:36:45,280
their parents or their grandparents and

2561
01:36:48,950 --> 01:36:46,639
and so they want to do something

2562
01:36:50,790 --> 01:36:48,960
different uh you know it's very popular

2563
01:36:52,629 --> 01:36:50,800
i think in with the younger generation

2564
01:36:54,950 --> 01:36:52,639
to go ghost hunting you know that that

2565
01:36:57,350 --> 01:36:54,960
seems sexy to them to actually you know

2566
01:36:59,350 --> 01:36:57,360
have an encounter with the paranormal uh

2567
01:37:02,310 --> 01:36:59,360
when it when it you know by going to a

2568
01:37:04,709 --> 01:37:02,320
haunted house and and trying to you know

2569
01:37:06,950 --> 01:37:04,719
you know pick up evp recordings so i

2570
01:37:08,709 --> 01:37:06,960
think i'm not i'm not so sure that it's

2571
01:37:11,109 --> 01:37:08,719
dying out i think maybe it's just

2572
01:37:13,109 --> 01:37:11,119
changed uh it's a different mentality

2573
01:37:14,790 --> 01:37:13,119
it's a different culture we you know

2574
01:37:16,149 --> 01:37:14,800
instant gratification has a lot to do

2575
01:37:18,470 --> 01:37:16,159
with it

2576
01:37:21,430 --> 01:37:18,480
and the problem with with the ufo field

2577
01:37:22,950 --> 01:37:21,440
is that it doesn't actually you know

2578
01:37:25,350 --> 01:37:22,960
cater to the instant gratification

2579
01:37:27,430 --> 01:37:25,360
generation i mean who who wants to watch

2580
01:37:29,189 --> 01:37:27,440
uh you know some strange light on

2581
01:37:29,910 --> 01:37:29,199
youtube they want to see something you

2582
01:37:34,550 --> 01:37:29,920
know

2583
01:37:35,910 --> 01:37:34,560
problem is what's sensational on youtube

2584
01:37:37,350 --> 01:37:35,920
are a lot of the hoax videos that have

2585
01:37:40,390 --> 01:37:37,360
come out you know those that that are

2586
01:37:42,149 --> 01:37:40,400
dramatic and show up up close ep craft

2587
01:37:44,790 --> 01:37:42,159
you know coming in very close and flying

2588
01:37:47,030 --> 01:37:44,800
around and and astounding everybody only

2589
01:37:48,470 --> 01:37:47,040
to be proved later to be hoaxes so it's

2590
01:37:51,109 --> 01:37:48,480
really hard i think you know there's too

2591
01:37:52,629 --> 01:37:51,119
much junk out there to really say that

2592
01:37:54,950 --> 01:37:52,639
you know the younger generation or the

2593
01:37:57,669 --> 01:37:54,960
the subject is dying out i think it's

2594
01:37:59,109 --> 01:37:57,679
just morphing into into a different uh

2595
01:38:01,189 --> 01:37:59,119
different aspect

2596
01:38:03,669 --> 01:38:01,199
which aspect are you talking about where

2597
01:38:06,470 --> 01:38:03,679
is the field going i think the field is

2598
01:38:07,669 --> 01:38:06,480
going towards you know more

2599
01:38:10,629 --> 01:38:07,679
you know honestly it's it's more

2600
01:38:12,070 --> 01:38:10,639
mythology promoting uh it's unfortunate

2601
01:38:13,669 --> 01:38:12,080
i don't think i really don't think

2602
01:38:16,629 --> 01:38:13,679
anybody there's a lot of folks out there

2603
01:38:19,510 --> 01:38:16,639
that have a sincere interest and

2604
01:38:21,109 --> 01:38:19,520
doing hardcore research you know mufon

2605
01:38:22,070 --> 01:38:21,119
wants to play lip service to it they

2606
01:38:23,350 --> 01:38:22,080
want to say they have all these

2607
01:38:24,470 --> 01:38:23,360
corporate backers and all these

2608
01:38:25,830 --> 01:38:24,480
scientists

2609
01:38:28,149 --> 01:38:25,840
i don't think it's going to get very far

2610
01:38:30,629 --> 01:38:28,159
because there's no transparency there so

2611
01:38:32,310 --> 01:38:30,639
the hardcore science has has simply

2612
01:38:35,189 --> 01:38:32,320
shied away from this so what we're left

2613
01:38:38,390 --> 01:38:35,199
with is sensationalizing

2614
01:38:40,470 --> 01:38:38,400
mythology promoting docutainment

2615
01:38:42,070 --> 01:38:40,480
lots of good cable tv shows out there

2616
01:38:45,030 --> 01:38:42,080
that entertain people because it

2617
01:38:46,790 --> 01:38:45,040
allegedly shows real investigation uh

2618
01:38:49,270 --> 01:38:46,800
but it's going to end up with just you

2619
01:38:50,950 --> 01:38:49,280
know more junk in the landfill as that's

2620
01:38:52,149 --> 01:38:50,960
what i would like to say i'm wanting to

2621
01:38:53,669 --> 01:38:52,159
go back you made some more comments

2622
01:38:55,109 --> 01:38:53,679
about mufon

2623
01:38:58,149 --> 01:38:55,119
is

2624
01:39:01,109 --> 01:38:58,159
problems that you have with ufology and

2625
01:39:02,149 --> 01:39:01,119
mufon in particular do you think

2626
01:39:07,030 --> 01:39:02,159
that

2627
01:39:08,709 --> 01:39:07,040
um it can be fixed if maybe there's a

2628
01:39:10,950 --> 01:39:08,719
change of leadership

2629
01:39:13,510 --> 01:39:10,960
uh the problem is that the leadership of

2630
01:39:14,709 --> 01:39:13,520
mufon is basically

2631
01:39:15,910 --> 01:39:14,719
they're it's made up of a board of

2632
01:39:17,669 --> 01:39:15,920
believers

2633
01:39:19,910 --> 01:39:17,679
they they believe that

2634
01:39:21,430 --> 01:39:19,920
ufos are extraterrestrial

2635
01:39:23,270 --> 01:39:21,440
they don't there's no open-mindedness

2636
01:39:25,510 --> 01:39:23,280
there there's no skepticism as far as

2637
01:39:26,709 --> 01:39:25,520
maybe there's another explanation

2638
01:39:28,709 --> 01:39:26,719
if there was they would be promoting

2639
01:39:31,590 --> 01:39:28,719
that level of research instead they

2640
01:39:33,590 --> 01:39:31,600
ignore it and and like anyone else who's

2641
01:39:35,030 --> 01:39:33,600
sensational seeking or any of these

2642
01:39:37,350 --> 01:39:35,040
folks that make the rounds of the talk

2643
01:39:38,870 --> 01:39:37,360
circuits and the conferences they have

2644
01:39:40,550 --> 01:39:38,880
no interest in solving they just have an

2645
01:39:41,990 --> 01:39:40,560
interest in perpetuating

2646
01:39:44,470 --> 01:39:42,000
you know that reminds you of something

2647
01:39:45,990 --> 01:39:44,480
that major donald kehoe said maybe what

2648
01:39:48,070 --> 01:39:46,000
50 years ago

2649
01:39:50,470 --> 01:39:48,080
where he was moving

2650
01:39:51,910 --> 01:39:50,480
his organization nightcap to get

2651
01:39:53,750 --> 01:39:51,920
congressional hearings they got the

2652
01:39:55,270 --> 01:39:53,760
hearings that brought the kind in report

2653
01:39:57,830 --> 01:39:55,280
didn't help very much

2654
01:40:00,070 --> 01:39:57,840
but he said at the time our purpose is

2655
01:40:01,430 --> 01:40:00,080
to put nycap out of business if we get

2656
01:40:03,510 --> 01:40:01,440
the congressional hearings we get

2657
01:40:05,270 --> 01:40:03,520
serious scientific attention

2658
01:40:08,070 --> 01:40:05,280
they take it over they try to find out

2659
01:40:10,070 --> 01:40:08,080
what's happening what ufos are all about

2660
01:40:11,189 --> 01:40:10,080
we've served our purpose we could move

2661
01:40:12,310 --> 01:40:11,199
on

2662
01:40:15,030 --> 01:40:12,320
so he

2663
01:40:18,070 --> 01:40:15,040
envisioned the end of nightcap whereas

2664
01:40:20,709 --> 01:40:18,080
today mufon doesn't envision an end

2665
01:40:22,950 --> 01:40:20,719
they expect us to go on for as long as

2666
01:40:23,750 --> 01:40:22,960
people will pay a membership fee every

2667
01:40:25,990 --> 01:40:23,760
year

2668
01:40:28,550 --> 01:40:26,000
or a lifetime membership fee to remain

2669
01:40:29,430 --> 01:40:28,560
in the organization there's no incentive

2670
01:40:31,510 --> 01:40:29,440
to say

2671
01:40:33,830 --> 01:40:31,520
it's time to move on

2672
01:40:36,310 --> 01:40:33,840
we've got the acceptance we want because

2673
01:40:39,669 --> 01:40:36,320
the acceptance puts them out of business

2674
01:40:41,830 --> 01:40:39,679
well you know honestly if mufon's if

2675
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:41,840
mufon's motto is to investigate this for

2676
01:40:45,669 --> 01:40:43,440
the benefit of humanity that means to

2677
01:40:47,030 --> 01:40:45,679
come up with real answers

2678
01:40:48,470 --> 01:40:47,040
and it's not to perpetuate their

2679
01:40:49,830 --> 01:40:48,480
organization not to continue their

2680
01:40:51,189 --> 01:40:49,840
social club

2681
01:40:52,870 --> 01:40:51,199
not to try to keep themselves in

2682
01:40:55,270 --> 01:40:52,880
business it's really about finding

2683
01:40:56,950 --> 01:40:55,280
answers and to provide answers to the

2684
01:40:58,790 --> 01:40:56,960
general public

2685
01:41:00,070 --> 01:40:58,800
if all you're doing is drumming up more

2686
01:41:01,590 --> 01:41:00,080
questions and you're not actually

2687
01:41:02,709 --> 01:41:01,600
providing answers you're providing a

2688
01:41:03,990 --> 01:41:02,719
disservice

2689
01:41:06,550 --> 01:41:04,000
but i would like to go back to what you

2690
01:41:08,390 --> 01:41:06,560
just said about nycat because you know a

2691
01:41:09,669 --> 01:41:08,400
lot of a lot of folks don't know that on

2692
01:41:12,149 --> 01:41:09,679
the board of nycap was a very

2693
01:41:13,350 --> 01:41:12,159
interesting individual

2694
01:41:15,990 --> 01:41:13,360
by the name of

2695
01:41:17,430 --> 01:41:16,000
admiral roscoe hillencotter oh yes we've

2696
01:41:19,109 --> 01:41:17,440
mentioned this

2697
01:41:20,870 --> 01:41:19,119
and mr hillenkotter has a very

2698
01:41:23,030 --> 01:41:20,880
interesting uh

2699
01:41:25,510 --> 01:41:23,040
history in the intelligence field he was

2700
01:41:27,669 --> 01:41:25,520
the first director of the cia and before

2701
01:41:29,350 --> 01:41:27,679
that he was involved in a number of

2702
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:29,360
deception operations and a number of

2703
01:41:34,149 --> 01:41:31,600
intelligence operations from world war

2704
01:41:36,470 --> 01:41:34,159
ii into the ghost rockets all the way

2705
01:41:38,790 --> 01:41:36,480
into his i'm sure his tenure on the

2706
01:41:40,870 --> 01:41:38,800
board of nicaap so you have to you have

2707
01:41:43,189 --> 01:41:40,880
to ask yourself why would an xcia

2708
01:41:46,229 --> 01:41:43,199
director have any interest in this field

2709
01:41:48,070 --> 01:41:46,239
whatsoever unless maybe there's some

2710
01:41:49,510 --> 01:41:48,080
ulterior motive there maybe there's

2711
01:41:51,830 --> 01:41:49,520
something that

2712
01:41:54,229 --> 01:41:51,840
continues to be of usefulness to the

2713
01:41:57,350 --> 01:41:54,239
intelligence agencies and he was part of

2714
01:42:00,709 --> 01:41:57,360
that now the excuse at the time was that

2715
01:42:02,790 --> 01:42:00,719
he was a classmate at annapolis of major

2716
01:42:04,550 --> 01:42:02,800
key house they were old friends that's

2717
01:42:06,310 --> 01:42:04,560
why he agreed for a time to serve on

2718
01:42:07,270 --> 01:42:06,320
that board

2719
01:42:09,669 --> 01:42:07,280
true

2720
01:42:11,430 --> 01:42:09,679
and and i can understand that line of

2721
01:42:13,109 --> 01:42:11,440
reasoning uh what i will show and

2722
01:42:14,550 --> 01:42:13,119
actually my rewrite of the of the

2723
01:42:17,030 --> 01:42:14,560
rosetta deception

2724
01:42:18,310 --> 01:42:17,040
is that along with his that classmate

2725
01:42:20,629 --> 01:42:18,320
there were a number of other classmates

2726
01:42:22,470 --> 01:42:20,639
that ended up very interesting positions

2727
01:42:24,229 --> 01:42:22,480
uh that had to do with the rosetta

2728
01:42:29,030 --> 01:42:24,239
deception

2729
01:42:30,390 --> 01:42:29,040
turn this thing on its ear

2730
01:42:31,910 --> 01:42:30,400
that i can't say i don't know enough

2731
01:42:33,270 --> 01:42:31,920
about keyhole i don't know enough about

2732
01:42:35,510 --> 01:42:33,280
his background

2733
01:42:36,870 --> 01:42:35,520
um that i could not say with any

2734
01:42:39,189 --> 01:42:36,880
certainty

2735
01:42:41,270 --> 01:42:39,199
i met keough a few times he seemed like

2736
01:42:44,629 --> 01:42:41,280
a personable gentleman he seems sincere

2737
01:42:46,629 --> 01:42:44,639
enough so i don't know

2738
01:42:48,229 --> 01:42:46,639
sure and i think you know there are a

2739
01:42:50,550 --> 01:42:48,239
mixture of people in this field i think

2740
01:42:53,270 --> 01:42:50,560
a lot of times folks they get this idea

2741
01:42:55,990 --> 01:42:53,280
that if there is cover-up if there is

2742
01:42:58,229 --> 01:42:56,000
deception that if there is conspiracy it

2743
01:43:01,030 --> 01:42:58,239
has to be so many individuals all

2744
01:43:03,510 --> 01:43:01,040
centrally coordinated all orchestrating

2745
01:43:06,149 --> 01:43:03,520
this this major event and that's

2746
01:43:09,030 --> 01:43:06,159
actually not true it doesn't take a lot

2747
01:43:10,870 --> 01:43:09,040
of control to get deception going that

2748
01:43:12,950 --> 01:43:10,880
was proven during world war ii it was

2749
01:43:14,709 --> 01:43:12,960
practiced during world war ii and the

2750
01:43:16,550 --> 01:43:14,719
key folks that were involved in those

2751
01:43:19,669 --> 01:43:16,560
deception operations happened to be in

2752
01:43:22,070 --> 01:43:19,679
the same positions of power when in 1946

2753
01:43:24,390 --> 01:43:22,080
and 1947 when these major events that

2754
01:43:26,709 --> 01:43:24,400
i'm investigating happened and in fact

2755
01:43:28,229 --> 01:43:26,719
there's a there's a precedent to this if

2756
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:28,239
you read world war ii history then you

2757
01:43:32,550 --> 01:43:29,760
would know what the london controlling

2758
01:43:34,550 --> 01:43:32,560
section is it's the british organization

2759
01:43:36,629 --> 01:43:34,560
that that practiced deception against

2760
01:43:39,030 --> 01:43:36,639
the germans on the united states it's

2761
01:43:41,109 --> 01:43:39,040
called joint security control i have

2762
01:43:43,109 --> 01:43:41,119
documents that show

2763
01:43:44,870 --> 01:43:43,119
boy hoyt vandenberg was a member of

2764
01:43:47,350 --> 01:43:44,880
joint security control

2765
01:43:49,189 --> 01:43:47,360
general mcdonald was a member of joint

2766
01:43:52,470 --> 01:43:49,199
security control these were folks that

2767
01:43:53,669 --> 01:43:52,480
knew how to how to perpetrate deception

2768
01:43:55,030 --> 01:43:53,679
and they were in the right place at the

2769
01:43:56,950 --> 01:43:55,040
right time to do it

2770
01:43:57,750 --> 01:43:56,960
so what we're saying here is that people

2771
01:43:59,830 --> 01:43:57,760
who

2772
01:44:00,790 --> 01:43:59,840
were part and parcel

2773
01:44:02,550 --> 01:44:00,800
of

2774
01:44:05,510 --> 01:44:02,560
early

2775
01:44:08,550 --> 01:44:05,520
information about ufos mentioned

2776
01:44:09,590 --> 01:44:08,560
in concern with documents about ufos

2777
01:44:11,669 --> 01:44:09,600
were also

2778
01:44:12,950 --> 01:44:11,679
intelligence people

2779
01:44:15,270 --> 01:44:12,960
but we're not they were not just any

2780
01:44:18,229 --> 01:44:15,280
intelligence people they were the folks

2781
01:44:20,550 --> 01:44:18,239
in intelligence that were responsible

2782
01:44:22,709 --> 01:44:20,560
for strategic deception

2783
01:44:24,390 --> 01:44:22,719
well obviously that shows a lot but do

2784
01:44:26,870 --> 01:44:24,400
you think the presence of the former

2785
01:44:29,109 --> 01:44:26,880
head of the cia on nycap

2786
01:44:30,870 --> 01:44:29,119
may have indicated that nycap itself was

2787
01:44:32,550 --> 01:44:30,880
engaged in some kind of counter

2788
01:44:35,350 --> 01:44:32,560
intelligence activity i mean it was

2789
01:44:36,870 --> 01:44:35,360
heavily laden with ex-military now we

2790
01:44:38,470 --> 01:44:36,880
only have about 40 seconds for this

2791
01:44:40,149 --> 01:44:38,480
segment so you can start the answer now

2792
01:44:41,590 --> 01:44:40,159
we'll pick it up

2793
01:44:43,510 --> 01:44:41,600
i think that

2794
01:44:45,430 --> 01:44:43,520
you know wherever there was was any

2795
01:44:47,350 --> 01:44:45,440
interest in high technology or the

2796
01:44:49,590 --> 01:44:47,360
possibility of high technology being

2797
01:44:51,669 --> 01:44:49,600
being used in other words if if the

2798
01:44:53,910 --> 01:44:51,679
russians thought ufo craft were really

2799
01:44:56,550 --> 01:44:53,920
u.s secret operations then there would

2800
01:44:57,430 --> 01:44:56,560
be a russian espionage interest and

2801
01:44:59,109 --> 01:44:57,440
therefore there's going to be a

2802
01:45:01,510 --> 01:44:59,119
counterintelligence address on the part

2803
01:45:03,990 --> 01:45:01,520
of the u.s

2804
01:45:06,229 --> 01:45:04,000
we have james carry on his book being

2805
01:45:09,270 --> 01:45:06,239
modified now as we speak the rosetta

2806
01:45:11,430 --> 01:45:09,280
deception there is a roswell deception

2807
01:45:13,590 --> 01:45:11,440
coming up we'll ask about roswell's

2808
01:45:15,750 --> 01:45:13,600
slides and a lot more of your questions

2809
01:45:17,910 --> 01:45:15,760
listeners our guest co-host is kurt

2810
01:45:23,340 --> 01:45:17,920
collins i'm gene steinberg you're in the

2811
01:45:23,350 --> 01:45:27,430
[Music]

2812
01:45:30,470 --> 01:45:28,950
not just an alternative to the

2813
01:45:33,430 --> 01:45:30,480
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2814
01:45:37,430 --> 01:45:33,440
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2815
01:45:39,830 --> 01:45:37,440
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2816
01:45:41,830 --> 01:45:39,840
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2817
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2818
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2819
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2820
01:45:51,030 --> 01:45:48,800
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2821
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2822
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2823
01:45:57,030 --> 01:45:54,960
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2824
01:45:59,750 --> 01:45:57,040
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2825
01:46:00,430 --> 01:45:59,760
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2826
01:46:02,709 --> 01:46:00,440
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2827
01:46:05,350 --> 01:46:02,719
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2828
01:46:06,950 --> 01:46:05,360
radio 20 for 20 off at checkout that's

2829
01:46:08,790 --> 01:46:06,960
vitaclaychef.com

2830
01:46:10,310 --> 01:46:08,800
hi this is ted anderson have you ever

2831
01:46:11,910 --> 01:46:10,320
wondered why banks stock brokers

2832
01:46:13,910 --> 01:46:11,920
investment advisors won't talk about

2833
01:46:16,229 --> 01:46:13,920
gold iras they've been available since

2834
01:46:17,910 --> 01:46:16,239
1986 yet the financial industry won't

2835
01:46:19,910 --> 01:46:17,920
recognize the value of gold for your

2836
01:46:22,229 --> 01:46:19,920
retirement gold is outperformed paper

2837
01:46:23,669 --> 01:46:22,239
investments yet no word about iras if

2838
01:46:26,950 --> 01:46:23,679
you would like to have gold for your

2839
01:46:28,470 --> 01:46:26,960
retirement call 800 686

2840
01:46:30,070 --> 01:46:28,480
don't get left behind by rising

2841
01:46:32,629 --> 01:46:30,080
inflation and low returns call

2842
01:46:33,910 --> 01:46:32,639
800-686-2237

2843
01:46:38,950 --> 01:46:33,920
secure your future and call

2844
01:46:42,709 --> 01:46:40,550
don't complain about your cable bill

2845
01:46:44,709 --> 01:46:42,719
going up and up and up do something

2846
01:46:46,030 --> 01:46:44,719
about it grab a pencil and jot down this

2847
01:46:49,350 --> 01:46:46,040
special number

2848
01:46:51,430 --> 01:46:49,360
1-855-905 my tv the more cable tv rates

2849
01:46:53,830 --> 01:46:51,440
go up the better digital satellite tv

2850
01:46:55,270 --> 01:46:53,840
looks say goodbye to the cable guy and

2851
01:46:58,590 --> 01:46:55,280
get more of your favorite channels in

2852
01:47:01,590 --> 01:46:58,600
100 digital quality for less money call

2853
01:47:03,669 --> 01:47:01,600
1-855-905 my tv sign up for packages

2854
01:47:05,990 --> 01:47:03,679
starting as low as 19.99 and there's no

2855
01:47:08,149 --> 01:47:06,000
equipment to buy you get free hd tv

2856
01:47:10,229 --> 01:47:08,159
upgrade a free dvr upgrade and free

2857
01:47:12,550 --> 01:47:10,239
professional installation you control

2858
01:47:14,709 --> 01:47:12,560
what you watch when you watch it record

2859
01:47:17,510 --> 01:47:14,719
your favorite shows pause and rewind

2860
01:47:20,229 --> 01:47:17,520
live tv even skip the commercials watch

2861
01:47:22,149 --> 01:47:20,239
local channels too at just 19.99 what

2862
01:47:25,750 --> 01:47:22,159
are you waiting for pull out your major

2863
01:47:27,430 --> 01:47:25,760
credit or debit card call 1-855-905 mytv

2864
01:47:30,709 --> 01:47:27,440
1-855-905

2865
01:47:33,990 --> 01:47:30,719
my tv say goodbye to the cable guy cut

2866
01:47:36,550 --> 01:47:34,000
costs and get more 1-855-905

2867
01:47:42,010 --> 01:47:36,560
my tv 1-855-9

2868
01:47:42,020 --> 01:47:45,910
[Music]

2869
01:47:52,870 --> 01:47:49,189
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2870
01:47:54,070 --> 01:47:52,880
standard of paranormal radio

2871
01:47:57,450 --> 01:47:54,080
and now

2872
01:48:00,950 --> 01:47:57,460
here's gene steinberg

2873
01:48:05,990 --> 01:48:03,830
now we have four segments left and i

2874
01:48:07,990 --> 01:48:06,000
want kurt to maybe ask a few of the very

2875
01:48:10,149 --> 01:48:08,000
key questions left because i have a few

2876
01:48:12,149 --> 01:48:10,159
left of james carry on kurt there are

2877
01:48:14,229 --> 01:48:12,159
several good ones in in their own

2878
01:48:15,750 --> 01:48:14,239
different topics so but this one ties

2879
01:48:17,430 --> 01:48:15,760
closely to what we were just talking

2880
01:48:20,390 --> 01:48:17,440
about this comes from

2881
01:48:23,189 --> 01:48:20,400
dissident ufo buff in your estimation

2882
01:48:25,750 --> 01:48:23,199
what percentage of modern ufo mythology

2883
01:48:27,030 --> 01:48:25,760
is a result directly or indirectly of

2884
01:48:29,270 --> 01:48:27,040
military intelligence or

2885
01:48:31,030 --> 01:48:29,280
counterintelligence operations

2886
01:48:33,109 --> 01:48:31,040
you know i couldn't even you know

2887
01:48:36,070 --> 01:48:33,119
venture a guess on that i i wouldn't

2888
01:48:37,669 --> 01:48:36,080
know percentage-wise all i can say is

2889
01:48:39,510 --> 01:48:37,679
that there is an interest

2890
01:48:41,109 --> 01:48:39,520
that there's still an ongoing

2891
01:48:44,390 --> 01:48:41,119
counter-intelligence interest in this

2892
01:48:45,910 --> 01:48:44,400
field and there's usefulness we we the

2893
01:48:47,830 --> 01:48:45,920
ufology plays

2894
01:48:50,310 --> 01:48:47,840
a useful partner to the intelligence

2895
01:48:52,229 --> 01:48:50,320
agencies and part of that is probably

2896
01:48:53,189 --> 01:48:52,239
counterintelligence probably that is

2897
01:48:55,590 --> 01:48:53,199
simply

2898
01:48:57,510 --> 01:48:55,600
you know practicing human deception if

2899
01:49:01,030 --> 01:48:57,520
we're going to teach our new recruits

2900
01:49:02,390 --> 01:49:01,040
how to deceive the russians why don't we

2901
01:49:04,310 --> 01:49:02,400
get them to practice on deceiving

2902
01:49:05,910 --> 01:49:04,320
ufologists first there's there's an

2903
01:49:07,669 --> 01:49:05,920
ongoing interest i don't want to put a

2904
01:49:09,990 --> 01:49:07,679
number on it but i know there is so

2905
01:49:11,430 --> 01:49:10,000
we're basically an easy target

2906
01:49:13,590 --> 01:49:11,440
absolutely

2907
01:49:15,430 --> 01:49:13,600
well i get i get the feeling that it's

2908
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:15,440
not like a scooby-doo episode where

2909
01:49:21,669 --> 01:49:17,920
they're they're trying to to hoax a ufo

2910
01:49:24,470 --> 01:49:21,679
it's more that it's uh the confusion or

2911
01:49:26,310 --> 01:49:24,480
ufos if they send a surveillance vehicle

2912
01:49:29,109 --> 01:49:26,320
over enemy territory and they don't know

2913
01:49:32,229 --> 01:49:29,119
what it is having a ufo is an answer is

2914
01:49:34,709 --> 01:49:32,239
is is better than than having uh

2915
01:49:36,310 --> 01:49:34,719
the air force blame for it sure i mean

2916
01:49:38,709 --> 01:49:36,320
i'm sure a lot of it has to do with

2917
01:49:40,550 --> 01:49:38,719
development of new you know secret craft

2918
01:49:41,830 --> 01:49:40,560
stealth technology they would rather

2919
01:49:43,350 --> 01:49:41,840
somebody blame

2920
01:49:45,350 --> 01:49:43,360
that new stealth aircraft flying

2921
01:49:47,350 --> 01:49:45,360
overhead on a ufo than you know

2922
01:49:48,870 --> 01:49:47,360
something that that we're paying a a

2923
01:49:51,669 --> 01:49:48,880
pretty penny for out of our defense

2924
01:49:52,870 --> 01:49:51,679
budget so i think there's multiple uses

2925
01:49:54,790 --> 01:49:52,880
of this field

2926
01:49:57,270 --> 01:49:54,800
you know i think that there's a whole

2927
01:49:58,950 --> 01:49:57,280
range of psychological

2928
01:50:02,070 --> 01:49:58,960
experiments that can be done or have

2929
01:50:03,669 --> 01:50:02,080
been done and probably are still ongoing

2930
01:50:06,310 --> 01:50:03,679
and i'm sure there's a number of things

2931
01:50:07,990 --> 01:50:06,320
that have to do with with

2932
01:50:08,870 --> 01:50:08,000
media manipulation

2933
01:50:10,870 --> 01:50:08,880
with

2934
01:50:13,990 --> 01:50:10,880
you know uh general population

2935
01:50:15,590 --> 01:50:14,000
persuasion uh information control there

2936
01:50:17,430 --> 01:50:15,600
are all kinds of interesting aspects

2937
01:50:19,109 --> 01:50:17,440
that play out here so how do you

2938
01:50:22,950 --> 01:50:19,119
separate the

2939
01:50:25,109 --> 01:50:22,960
faux ufos from the so-called real ones

2940
01:50:26,870 --> 01:50:25,119
that's a difficult problem that ufology

2941
01:50:28,470 --> 01:50:26,880
faces right now i mean i think i think

2942
01:50:30,070 --> 01:50:28,480
we have to go back you know i know you

2943
01:50:31,270 --> 01:50:30,080
probably know that the x-files is coming

2944
01:50:34,870 --> 01:50:31,280
back for uh

2945
01:50:37,189 --> 01:50:34,880
uh uh six uh show season which i'm very

2946
01:50:39,510 --> 01:50:37,199
excited about i'm a big x-files fan but

2947
01:50:42,070 --> 01:50:39,520
what am i told

2948
01:50:43,430 --> 01:50:42,080
one of my favorite x-files episode is

2949
01:50:44,790 --> 01:50:43,440
the one where the

2950
01:50:47,109 --> 01:50:44,800
the couple is in their car and they're

2951
01:50:49,109 --> 01:50:47,119
going down the country road and all of a

2952
01:50:51,189 --> 01:50:49,119
sudden the they're they're abducted by

2953
01:50:53,350 --> 01:50:51,199
aliens these little gray beans

2954
01:50:55,910 --> 01:50:53,360
and then another bigger ufo comes and

2955
01:50:57,030 --> 01:50:55,920
abducts the gray aliens and the couple

2956
01:50:59,430 --> 01:50:57,040
and then it turns out later in the

2957
01:51:01,189 --> 01:50:59,440
episode that the gray aliens are us air

2958
01:51:02,870 --> 01:51:01,199
force guys in disguise

2959
01:51:04,790 --> 01:51:02,880
right this is the classic episode

2960
01:51:06,709 --> 01:51:04,800
because i think it really is indicative

2961
01:51:08,470 --> 01:51:06,719
of what ufology faces

2962
01:51:09,590 --> 01:51:08,480
how do you separate what is human

2963
01:51:12,229 --> 01:51:09,600
deception

2964
01:51:14,229 --> 01:51:12,239
from what is real activity and unless

2965
01:51:16,229 --> 01:51:14,239
somebody is willing to dip their fingers

2966
01:51:17,830 --> 01:51:16,239
into human deception and actually

2967
01:51:19,510 --> 01:51:17,840
investigate it away

2968
01:51:21,189 --> 01:51:19,520
research it thoroughly

2969
01:51:22,790 --> 01:51:21,199
and try to prevent some of this mudding

2970
01:51:24,390 --> 01:51:22,800
of the water

2971
01:51:26,310 --> 01:51:24,400
you're simply never going to have any

2972
01:51:28,149 --> 01:51:26,320
answers in this field i've said this

2973
01:51:30,229 --> 01:51:28,159
very much i've said this very many times

2974
01:51:32,390 --> 01:51:30,239
in the past if you cannot explain the

2975
01:51:34,629 --> 01:51:32,400
role of government in this field

2976
01:51:36,950 --> 01:51:34,639
there is no progress you know let me ask

2977
01:51:38,870 --> 01:51:36,960
you something here with regard to that

2978
01:51:42,390 --> 01:51:38,880
because you raised the question by

2979
01:51:43,910 --> 01:51:42,400
citing that x-files episode abductions

2980
01:51:45,430 --> 01:51:43,920
particularly barney and betty hill

2981
01:51:46,830 --> 01:51:45,440
because they lived near an air force

2982
01:51:49,189 --> 01:51:46,840
base and they had friends in the

2983
01:51:51,669 --> 01:51:49,199
military do you think some of these

2984
01:51:53,030 --> 01:51:51,679
abduction cases were part of a military

2985
01:51:54,870 --> 01:51:53,040
experiment

2986
01:51:56,390 --> 01:51:54,880
you know it's a possibility i don't know

2987
01:51:57,910 --> 01:51:56,400
i actually have

2988
01:51:59,990 --> 01:51:57,920
you know in all the different aspects of

2989
01:52:02,950 --> 01:52:00,000
ufology i i do find abductions probably

2990
01:52:05,990 --> 01:52:04,870
primarily because i was investigating

2991
01:52:08,229 --> 01:52:06,000
one case

2992
01:52:10,950 --> 01:52:08,239
that happened in colorado

2993
01:52:13,030 --> 01:52:10,960
and it was a very dramatic case probably

2994
01:52:14,870 --> 01:52:13,040
more dramatic than betty and barney hill

2995
01:52:17,109 --> 01:52:14,880
but it's not in the in the in the in the

2996
01:52:18,390 --> 01:52:17,119
case files anywhere uh because it didn't

2997
01:52:21,430 --> 01:52:18,400
receive a large large amount of

2998
01:52:23,510 --> 01:52:21,440
publicity but very dramatic nonetheless

2999
01:52:25,350 --> 01:52:23,520
and so as i was investigating that you

3000
01:52:28,950 --> 01:52:25,360
know what struck me was the uh the

3001
01:52:30,390 --> 01:52:28,960
honesty the sincerity of these alleged

3002
01:52:32,950 --> 01:52:30,400
abductees

3003
01:52:34,709 --> 01:52:32,960
their fear of

3004
01:52:37,109 --> 01:52:34,719
going public with it you know they

3005
01:52:39,669 --> 01:52:37,119
really had no money motivation

3006
01:52:41,109 --> 01:52:39,679
there was simply no nothing to gain

3007
01:52:43,430 --> 01:52:41,119
by coming out with a story everything to

3008
01:52:44,790 --> 01:52:43,440
lose so i do find abductions to be very

3009
01:52:46,470 --> 01:52:44,800
interesting

3010
01:52:48,950 --> 01:52:46,480
are they tied into some sort of military

3011
01:52:50,870 --> 01:52:48,960
psyops or experimental program

3012
01:52:52,149 --> 01:52:50,880
possible i just don't know

3013
01:52:53,750 --> 01:52:52,159
well i want to have some more

3014
01:52:55,910 --> 01:52:53,760
discussions about abductions we're

3015
01:52:57,910 --> 01:52:55,920
possibly having a future episode on the

3016
01:52:59,350 --> 01:52:57,920
subject let me cover one more thing

3017
01:53:02,390 --> 01:52:59,360
before we get to more questions from

3018
01:53:05,270 --> 01:53:02,400
kurt and that is back to roswell

3019
01:53:07,510 --> 01:53:05,280
so we have the so-called roswell slides

3020
01:53:09,910 --> 01:53:07,520
no evidence they were connected roswell

3021
01:53:12,470 --> 01:53:09,920
what's your observation about it i mean

3022
01:53:15,189 --> 01:53:12,480
we realize supposedly the actual

3023
01:53:16,629 --> 01:53:15,199
presentation's not going to happen

3024
01:53:18,950 --> 01:53:16,639
until may

3025
01:53:22,310 --> 01:53:18,960
in mexico city but there has been so

3026
01:53:24,870 --> 01:53:22,320
much advanced anticipation and publicity

3027
01:53:26,950 --> 01:53:24,880
which i think is overdone i'm kind of

3028
01:53:28,229 --> 01:53:26,960
prejudging this what do you think about

3029
01:53:30,149 --> 01:53:28,239
all of it

3030
01:53:31,990 --> 01:53:30,159
honestly i'm not i'm not going to pass

3031
01:53:34,390 --> 01:53:32,000
judgment on on

3032
01:53:35,990 --> 01:53:34,400
the slides as evidence but i'll just

3033
01:53:38,550 --> 01:53:36,000
make some general observations about

3034
01:53:41,189 --> 01:53:38,560
ufology in general whenever something

3035
01:53:42,550 --> 01:53:41,199
comes up that's sensational that's new

3036
01:53:44,070 --> 01:53:42,560
that allegedly is going to be the

3037
01:53:46,550 --> 01:53:44,080
smoking gun that's finally going to

3038
01:53:49,350 --> 01:53:46,560
prove that roswell really happened or

3039
01:53:51,750 --> 01:53:49,360
this case really happened uh ufology

3040
01:53:53,030 --> 01:53:51,760
descends on it like a rat on a cheeto

3041
01:53:55,510 --> 01:53:53,040
i mean

3042
01:53:57,030 --> 01:53:55,520
they are all over it it doesn't matter

3043
01:53:59,589 --> 01:53:57,040
whether or not there's any holes in the

3044
01:54:01,990 --> 01:53:59,599
story or there's there there's you know

3045
01:54:03,750 --> 01:54:02,000
lack of chain of custody or or there's a

3046
01:54:06,229 --> 01:54:03,760
problem with provenance they're just

3047
01:54:07,830 --> 01:54:06,239
simply all over it because you know hey

3048
01:54:09,350 --> 01:54:07,840
that's this is going to do it for us

3049
01:54:11,270 --> 01:54:09,360
this is really going to prove that we're

3050
01:54:13,910 --> 01:54:11,280
right about this and i actually find

3051
01:54:15,830 --> 01:54:13,920
that to be ridiculous uh you know if you

3052
01:54:17,750 --> 01:54:15,840
if you truly want to

3053
01:54:20,149 --> 01:54:17,760
understand what's happening

3054
01:54:21,430 --> 01:54:20,159
in ufology then just you have to you

3055
01:54:22,709 --> 01:54:21,440
can't be lazy you can't wait for the

3056
01:54:25,350 --> 01:54:22,719
evidence to come to you you have to go

3057
01:54:26,950 --> 01:54:25,360
look for the evidence uh so you know

3058
01:54:28,149 --> 01:54:26,960
we're talking how many ufologists am i

3059
01:54:30,629 --> 01:54:28,159
going to see tomorrow in the national

3060
01:54:32,390 --> 01:54:30,639
archives i would bet zero

3061
01:54:34,149 --> 01:54:32,400
you know in the past you have you know

3062
01:54:35,830 --> 01:54:34,159
these major ufo researchers like stanton

3063
01:54:37,430 --> 01:54:35,840
freeman claim i've been to i don't know

3064
01:54:39,350 --> 01:54:37,440
how many archives and i've done this

3065
01:54:40,790 --> 01:54:39,360
research and that research that's great

3066
01:54:42,870 --> 01:54:40,800
i really applaud your efforts stanton

3067
01:54:44,470 --> 01:54:42,880
what have you done for me lately

3068
01:54:46,470 --> 01:54:44,480
you know where are the stanton freemans

3069
01:54:48,629 --> 01:54:46,480
of the world now that are sitting in

3070
01:54:50,870 --> 01:54:48,639
those archives looking for new evidence

3071
01:54:52,629 --> 01:54:50,880
that are trying to come up with evidence

3072
01:54:53,830 --> 01:54:52,639
they're too lazy it's it's it's

3073
01:54:59,830 --> 01:54:53,840
intellectual

3074
01:55:02,310 --> 01:54:59,840
everybody wants to be a ufo armed

3075
01:55:03,830 --> 01:55:02,320
armchair researcher and just wait for

3076
01:55:05,669 --> 01:55:03,840
the evidence to somehow fall into their

3077
01:55:08,149 --> 01:55:05,679
laps it's not going to happen

3078
01:55:09,910 --> 01:55:08,159
that that partly ties in with with this

3079
01:55:11,430 --> 01:55:09,920
question so i think you've answered in

3080
01:55:13,830 --> 01:55:11,440
part but there's another

3081
01:55:16,390 --> 01:55:13,840
uh part this is from ezekiel what about

3082
01:55:19,189 --> 01:55:16,400
the it's about the methods being used

3083
01:55:21,030 --> 01:55:19,199
and he says is is trying to catch a fly

3084
01:55:23,589 --> 01:55:21,040
with a pair of wet noodles a good

3085
01:55:25,270 --> 01:55:23,599
analogy to current efforts by youth

3086
01:55:27,510 --> 01:55:25,280
philologists i think

3087
01:55:29,270 --> 01:55:27,520
he wants you to comment on the methods

3088
01:55:30,870 --> 01:55:29,280
and techniques and possibly the

3089
01:55:32,070 --> 01:55:30,880
discipline and you've said some

3090
01:55:33,510 --> 01:55:32,080
something about that but obviously

3091
01:55:36,470 --> 01:55:33,520
there's more what what should they be

3092
01:55:38,709 --> 01:55:36,480
doing besides the the hard research what

3093
01:55:40,629 --> 01:55:38,719
about actually finding things and

3094
01:55:42,870 --> 01:55:40,639
collecting evidence

3095
01:55:44,790 --> 01:55:42,880
well you know i i think that probably uh

3096
01:55:47,270 --> 01:55:44,800
one of the most interesting experiments

3097
01:55:49,910 --> 01:55:47,280
i saw that mufon was a part of

3098
01:55:51,510 --> 01:55:49,920
was called the amp project and

3099
01:55:53,990 --> 01:55:51,520
this a lot of folks probably don't know

3100
01:55:56,149 --> 01:55:54,000
about this but this was uh amp amp

3101
01:55:58,470 --> 01:55:56,159
stands for ambient monitoring

3102
01:55:59,750 --> 01:55:58,480
project and what they did is they

3103
01:56:00,870 --> 01:55:59,760
recruited

3104
01:56:03,430 --> 01:56:00,880
these folks that claimed to have

3105
01:56:06,310 --> 01:56:03,440
abductions and they put inside of their

3106
01:56:08,310 --> 01:56:06,320
homes these scientific devices it was

3107
01:56:11,270 --> 01:56:08,320
basically just a box that looked like

3108
01:56:12,950 --> 01:56:11,280
something mundane and inside of this box

3109
01:56:16,550 --> 01:56:12,960
there were scientific instruments that

3110
01:56:18,550 --> 01:56:16,560
were measuring ambient temperature and

3111
01:56:20,149 --> 01:56:18,560
gravitational fields and any number of

3112
01:56:21,589 --> 01:56:20,159
other things

3113
01:56:22,709 --> 01:56:21,599
and then recording it

3114
01:56:25,510 --> 01:56:22,719
the data

3115
01:56:27,109 --> 01:56:25,520
and then what they had these abductees

3116
01:56:28,790 --> 01:56:27,119
do was

3117
01:56:30,229 --> 01:56:28,800
time they thought they had an abduction

3118
01:56:31,990 --> 01:56:30,239
experience they were supposed to journal

3119
01:56:34,310 --> 01:56:32,000
about it and so they would collect the

3120
01:56:35,750 --> 01:56:34,320
data the abductees would journal and

3121
01:56:37,510 --> 01:56:35,760
then later on they were supposed to

3122
01:56:38,390 --> 01:56:37,520
combine that research together to see

3123
01:56:39,910 --> 01:56:38,400
that

3124
01:56:41,430 --> 01:56:39,920
when an abductee claimed to have an

3125
01:56:42,550 --> 01:56:41,440
experience whether something changed in

3126
01:56:44,390 --> 01:56:42,560
their environment

3127
01:56:46,629 --> 01:56:44,400
something physically changed i thought

3128
01:56:48,229 --> 01:56:46,639
it was very interesting very very good

3129
01:56:49,910 --> 01:56:48,239
scientific

3130
01:56:52,310 --> 01:56:49,920
you know experiment in terms of a

3131
01:56:53,270 --> 01:56:52,320
hypothesis and data being collected the

3132
01:56:55,109 --> 01:56:53,280
problem was the data was never

3133
01:56:56,950 --> 01:56:55,119
researched i'm sorry the data was never

3134
01:56:58,790 --> 01:56:56,960
analyzed when i was

3135
01:57:01,109 --> 01:56:58,800
when i was the director

3136
01:57:03,189 --> 01:57:01,119
i really tried to pursue getting this

3137
01:57:05,109 --> 01:57:03,199
data analyzed we actually found a

3138
01:57:07,189 --> 01:57:05,119
statistician who was going to massage

3139
01:57:09,189 --> 01:57:07,199
the data and put out a report that

3140
01:57:11,189 --> 01:57:09,199
person sat on the data for months they

3141
01:57:13,669 --> 01:57:11,199
never did anything about it we never

3142
01:57:15,669 --> 01:57:13,679
ended up actually paying them and then i

3143
01:57:17,270 --> 01:57:15,679
ended up leaving the organization before

3144
01:57:19,030 --> 01:57:17,280
it could be analyzed again so there's

3145
01:57:20,950 --> 01:57:19,040
data sitting in mufon's archive right

3146
01:57:23,109 --> 01:57:20,960
now unanalyzed

3147
01:57:25,350 --> 01:57:23,119
hard data why is that not being looked

3148
01:57:26,709 --> 01:57:25,360
at we have to look at this announcement

3149
01:57:30,550 --> 01:57:26,719
we'll get back to more of this with

3150
01:57:37,030 --> 01:57:30,560
james carrion with gene and kurt collins

3151
01:57:43,109 --> 01:57:39,750
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3152
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3153
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3154
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3155
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3156
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3157
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3158
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3160
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3162
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3167
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3168
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3169
01:58:34,950 --> 01:58:32,880
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3170
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3171
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3172
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have you ever felt like the united

3173
01:58:41,510 --> 01:58:39,440
states government knows way too much

3174
01:58:43,589 --> 01:58:41,520
about your financial affairs i continue

3175
01:58:45,510 --> 01:58:43,599
to hear stories about property seizures

3176
01:58:47,669 --> 01:58:45,520
frozen bank accounts confiscation of

3177
01:58:49,510 --> 01:58:47,679
stocks and bonds it makes me wonder if

3178
01:58:51,589 --> 01:58:49,520
the us citizen will ever again have the

3179
01:58:54,149 --> 01:58:51,599
right to life liberty and the pursuit of

3180
01:58:56,070 --> 01:58:54,159
happiness unfortunately with the drug

3181
01:58:59,030 --> 01:58:56,080
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3182
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3183
01:59:03,589 --> 01:59:00,880
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3184
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executive order of 1933 some precious

3185
01:59:07,430 --> 01:59:05,520
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3186
01:59:09,109 --> 01:59:07,440
intervention for this reason midas

3187
01:59:10,629 --> 01:59:09,119
resources has prepared a report

3188
01:59:12,550 --> 01:59:10,639
explaining the boundaries of trading

3189
01:59:14,390 --> 01:59:12,560
precious metals privately whether if you

3190
01:59:16,229 --> 01:59:14,400
have any intention of trading with midas

3191
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3192
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3193
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3194
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3195
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3196
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3197
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3198
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3199
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3200
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3201
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3202
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3203
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3204
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3205
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3206
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3207
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3208
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3209
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3210
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3213
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3214
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3215
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3216
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3217
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3218
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3219
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3220
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3221
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3222
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3223
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3224
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3225
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3226
02:00:51,830 --> 02:00:49,440
the water you drink should be at a ph

3227
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3228
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3229
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3231
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3232
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3233
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3234
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3235
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3236
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3237
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3238
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or call 269 409 1776

3245
02:01:40,229 --> 02:01:35,520
269 409

3246
02:01:44,950 --> 02:01:42,550
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

3247
02:01:48,550 --> 02:01:44,960
comment or question about the paracast

3248
02:01:51,750 --> 02:01:48,560
send it to news at theparacast.com

3249
02:01:53,589 --> 02:01:51,760
that's news at theparecast.com

3250
02:01:56,070 --> 02:01:53,599
and don't forget to visit our famous

3251
02:01:58,910 --> 02:01:56,080
paracast community forums at

3252
02:02:00,149 --> 02:01:58,920
forum.theparacast.com

3253
02:02:01,750 --> 02:02:00,159
[Music]

3254
02:02:04,390 --> 02:02:01,760
kirk collins is joining us as guest

3255
02:02:06,709 --> 02:02:04,400
co-host he has studied ufos very

3256
02:02:09,189 --> 02:02:06,719
intensively in recent years cash landrum

3257
02:02:10,870 --> 02:02:09,199
case he's also the curator of

3258
02:02:12,709 --> 02:02:10,880
jimmosley.com

3259
02:02:14,390 --> 02:02:12,719
and he's been asking the questions that

3260
02:02:17,270 --> 02:02:14,400
you listeners are posing

3261
02:02:19,669 --> 02:02:17,280
on the show chris o'brien is on

3262
02:02:21,990 --> 02:02:19,679
leave for this week mourning the

3263
02:02:23,510 --> 02:02:22,000
death of his brother brendan o'brien

3264
02:02:25,750 --> 02:02:23,520
james carrion is answering your

3265
02:02:27,990 --> 02:02:25,760
questions kurt you got some more

3266
02:02:30,390 --> 02:02:28,000
oh there's more there's one that's uh a

3267
02:02:33,189 --> 02:02:30,400
favorite topic of the

3268
02:02:35,510 --> 02:02:33,199
pear cast listeners so uh heidi limmer

3269
02:02:37,510 --> 02:02:35,520
asks have you visited ray stanford to

3270
02:02:39,750 --> 02:02:37,520
see his films or pictures

3271
02:02:41,990 --> 02:02:39,760
or while you were in mufon did you did

3272
02:02:44,629 --> 02:02:42,000
you know anyone who looked at his work

3273
02:02:47,030 --> 02:02:44,639
and if not have you found any other ufo

3274
02:02:49,669 --> 02:02:47,040
film that was uh compelling

3275
02:02:51,669 --> 02:02:49,679
i have not seen the stanford's films uh

3276
02:02:53,430 --> 02:02:51,679
and i and i i think i even said this on

3277
02:02:55,830 --> 02:02:53,440
the forum i probably won't look at

3278
02:02:58,390 --> 02:02:55,840
stanford's films uh and the reason for

3279
02:03:00,109 --> 02:02:58,400
that is i'm too focused on on my piece

3280
02:03:03,109 --> 02:03:00,119
of the puzzle which is the

3281
02:03:05,109 --> 02:03:03,119
1946-1947 time frame you know

3282
02:03:08,229 --> 02:03:05,119
there's you can't look at ufology as an

3283
02:03:11,030 --> 02:03:08,239
overall subject you can't study it as

3284
02:03:13,189 --> 02:03:11,040
just one big topic it gets thrown into

3285
02:03:14,709 --> 02:03:13,199
one big bucket if you really want to do

3286
02:03:16,550 --> 02:03:14,719
some serious research into the field you

3287
02:03:19,030 --> 02:03:16,560
need to pick a niche and you need to

3288
02:03:21,750 --> 02:03:19,040
focus on that niche um so that's my

3289
02:03:25,430 --> 02:03:21,760
answer to the to to the the film

3290
02:03:27,270 --> 02:03:25,440
question uh as far as other films um

3291
02:03:28,950 --> 02:03:27,280
honestly i haven't seen anything that i

3292
02:03:30,870 --> 02:03:28,960
would say is

3293
02:03:32,070 --> 02:03:30,880
extremely compelling to me

3294
02:03:33,510 --> 02:03:32,080
uh and

3295
02:03:36,390 --> 02:03:33,520
and this we're talking about historical

3296
02:03:38,310 --> 02:03:36,400
films here uh nowadays i won't even

3297
02:03:40,550 --> 02:03:38,320
bother to get on youtube or look at the

3298
02:03:42,790 --> 02:03:40,560
latest that's coming across facebook

3299
02:03:44,870 --> 02:03:42,800
because there's simply too many hoaxes

3300
02:03:46,790 --> 02:03:44,880
out there there are too many people with

3301
02:03:49,189 --> 02:03:46,800
good good computer systems and good

3302
02:03:51,109 --> 02:03:49,199
software skills that can create some

3303
02:03:52,070 --> 02:03:51,119
really good special effects

3304
02:03:54,790 --> 02:03:52,080
okay

3305
02:03:57,270 --> 02:03:54,800
if there is any case

3306
02:03:59,510 --> 02:03:57,280
about ufos that is really compelling

3307
02:04:01,589 --> 02:03:59,520
that can't be explained conventionally

3308
02:04:03,270 --> 02:04:01,599
what would you point to actually i would

3309
02:04:06,470 --> 02:04:03,280
probably turn that question around and

3310
02:04:08,950 --> 02:04:06,480
say and ask are you referring to case a

3311
02:04:11,350 --> 02:04:08,960
ufo case that somehow equates to the

3312
02:04:13,510 --> 02:04:11,360
extraterrestrial hypothesis

3313
02:04:14,950 --> 02:04:13,520
i'm thinking in terms of any case that

3314
02:04:16,950 --> 02:04:14,960
demonstrates

3315
02:04:18,950 --> 02:04:16,960
an unknown a mystery that needs to be

3316
02:04:21,270 --> 02:04:18,960
solved it doesn't necessarily have to be

3317
02:04:22,310 --> 02:04:21,280
e.t well i think that there's a number

3318
02:04:24,390 --> 02:04:22,320
of those

3319
02:04:26,870 --> 02:04:24,400
you know porters county ohio

3320
02:04:29,669 --> 02:04:26,880
cash landrum you know

3321
02:04:32,470 --> 02:04:29,679
roswell supposedly an e.t crash so these

3322
02:04:34,310 --> 02:04:32,480
are all compelling cases they all have

3323
02:04:37,030 --> 02:04:34,320
you know evidence behind them

3324
02:04:39,270 --> 02:04:37,040
and they all have interesting

3325
02:04:42,149 --> 02:04:39,280
aspects to be researched

3326
02:04:43,669 --> 02:04:42,159
i the compelling part

3327
02:04:46,629 --> 02:04:43,679
i would i find that difficult to answer

3328
02:04:48,390 --> 02:04:46,639
because it's i don't feel compelled that

3329
02:04:51,030 --> 02:04:48,400
they're they're they're providing me an

3330
02:04:52,470 --> 02:04:51,040
answer you know i don't think that that

3331
02:04:55,750 --> 02:04:52,480
they're intriguing

3332
02:04:57,589 --> 02:04:55,760
at they're a mystery but they but they

3333
02:04:58,870 --> 02:04:57,599
remain a mystery and why did they remain

3334
02:05:01,270 --> 02:04:58,880
a mystery maybe because they were in the

3335
02:05:03,350 --> 02:05:01,280
past the eyewitnesses are dead the

3336
02:05:05,669 --> 02:05:03,360
investigation's already been done into

3337
02:05:07,589 --> 02:05:05,679
first-hand testimony and the collection

3338
02:05:09,750 --> 02:05:07,599
of evidence so they will remain a

3339
02:05:11,750 --> 02:05:09,760
mystery and but they're not compelling

3340
02:05:13,750 --> 02:05:11,760
to me because they don't tell me that

3341
02:05:15,990 --> 02:05:13,760
it's on anything other than an unknown

3342
02:05:17,830 --> 02:05:16,000
so it's it's it's really difficult

3343
02:05:19,030 --> 02:05:17,840
question to answer this was more of a

3344
02:05:20,870 --> 02:05:19,040
statement i think this is kind of

3345
02:05:22,950 --> 02:05:20,880
interesting especially if we uh try to

3346
02:05:25,189 --> 02:05:22,960
apply this to what james was saying

3347
02:05:27,990 --> 02:05:25,199
earlier about mufon about them being

3348
02:05:29,990 --> 02:05:28,000
composed of believers and this is about

3349
02:05:31,589 --> 02:05:30,000
labeling and he said let's see if we can

3350
02:05:33,589 --> 02:05:31,599
eliminate positioning each other as

3351
02:05:36,070 --> 02:05:33,599
believers government government dupes

3352
02:05:38,430 --> 02:05:36,080
and debunkers addressing that idea not

3353
02:05:41,109 --> 02:05:38,440
the person should be our primary focus

3354
02:05:43,109 --> 02:05:41,119
miscommunication and guesses

3355
02:05:45,189 --> 02:05:43,119
about where we think people are coming

3356
02:05:48,790 --> 02:05:45,199
from by labeling them does none of us

3357
02:05:51,270 --> 02:05:48,800
any good we need to stop barking

3358
02:05:53,350 --> 02:05:51,280
and and thinking uh together one of the

3359
02:05:55,430 --> 02:05:53,360
things is you hear this claim so often

3360
02:05:57,910 --> 02:05:55,440
someone disagrees with you well they're

3361
02:05:59,669 --> 02:05:57,920
a starry eyed believer or their

3362
02:06:02,070 --> 02:05:59,679
disinformation agent you know simply

3363
02:06:04,229 --> 02:06:02,080
because they have a belief that's a

3364
02:06:05,910 --> 02:06:04,239
notch difference from yours and why why

3365
02:06:09,589 --> 02:06:05,920
is there such a little tolerance for

3366
02:06:11,750 --> 02:06:09,599
just seeing our working together and not

3367
02:06:13,750 --> 02:06:11,760
getting hung up on these little points

3368
02:06:15,830 --> 02:06:13,760
well yeah i mean i would agree with that

3369
02:06:18,070 --> 02:06:15,840
to a degree so let's let's think about

3370
02:06:19,510 --> 02:06:18,080
the spectrum of belief here so if we

3371
02:06:20,790 --> 02:06:19,520
look at the spectrum of belief on one

3372
02:06:22,470 --> 02:06:20,800
end we have

3373
02:06:24,229 --> 02:06:22,480
what i would label i'm sorry because you

3374
02:06:25,669 --> 02:06:24,239
have to put labels on a spectrum die

3375
02:06:27,270 --> 02:06:25,679
hard believers

3376
02:06:29,830 --> 02:06:27,280
and at the other end of the spectrum you

3377
02:06:33,189 --> 02:06:29,840
have die hard debunkers both of these

3378
02:06:35,750 --> 02:06:33,199
folks both these folks have the same

3379
02:06:37,350 --> 02:06:35,760
intellectual view of what they believe

3380
02:06:38,310 --> 02:06:37,360
and that is their mind is already made

3381
02:06:40,470 --> 02:06:38,320
up

3382
02:06:42,709 --> 02:06:40,480
believers at one end of the spectrum say

3383
02:06:45,189 --> 02:06:42,719
oh ut's visiting us there's no doubt

3384
02:06:47,430 --> 02:06:45,199
about it you can't convince me otherwise

3385
02:06:49,510 --> 02:06:47,440
debunkers on the other end will say the

3386
02:06:51,669 --> 02:06:49,520
opposite they'll say can't possibly be

3387
02:06:53,430 --> 02:06:51,679
et there's no hard evidence

3388
02:06:55,589 --> 02:06:53,440
but you know in the same way the

3389
02:06:57,030 --> 02:06:55,599
believer refuses to look at and look at

3390
02:06:58,470 --> 02:06:57,040
the evidence to the contrary of their

3391
02:07:01,270 --> 02:06:58,480
beliefs the debunker does it in the same

3392
02:07:04,069 --> 02:07:01,280
way by samara by by doing a summary

3393
02:07:05,910 --> 02:07:04,079
dismissal they won't even look into into

3394
02:07:07,830 --> 02:07:05,920
it they want to actually research it

3395
02:07:08,870 --> 02:07:07,840
their minds both minds are already made

3396
02:07:10,790 --> 02:07:08,880
up

3397
02:07:13,270 --> 02:07:10,800
in the middle of that spectrum of belief

3398
02:07:14,790 --> 02:07:13,280
are what i call true skeptics if you're

3399
02:07:16,790 --> 02:07:14,800
a true skeptic

3400
02:07:18,470 --> 02:07:16,800
what you're you're not basing your

3401
02:07:19,990 --> 02:07:18,480
research on belief

3402
02:07:21,990 --> 02:07:20,000
you're looking into hard evidence you're

3403
02:07:24,470 --> 02:07:22,000
looking at documents you're looking at a

3404
02:07:26,229 --> 02:07:24,480
way to try to discount your own discount

3405
02:07:27,589 --> 02:07:26,239
whatever beliefs you have and try to do

3406
02:07:28,870 --> 02:07:27,599
away with whatever beliefs you have and

3407
02:07:31,270 --> 02:07:28,880
even trying to explain away whatever

3408
02:07:32,629 --> 02:07:31,280
hypothesis you have i've said this time

3409
02:07:34,310 --> 02:07:32,639
and time again

3410
02:07:36,149 --> 02:07:34,320
if somebody doesn't believe my theory

3411
02:07:38,550 --> 02:07:36,159
that's great it doesn't believe my

3412
02:07:39,990 --> 02:07:38,560
hypothesis that's great prove me wrong

3413
02:07:42,069 --> 02:07:40,000
but don't prove me wrong by telling me

3414
02:07:43,910 --> 02:07:42,079
what your belief is prove me wrong by

3415
02:07:46,069 --> 02:07:43,920
showing me what i got wrong what

3416
02:07:47,669 --> 02:07:46,079
documents i don't i'm misinterpreting

3417
02:07:50,069 --> 02:07:47,679
what evidence have you produced that's

3418
02:07:51,830 --> 02:07:50,079
hard evans you know from an archive that

3419
02:07:54,229 --> 02:07:51,840
shows completely the opposite of what

3420
02:07:56,069 --> 02:07:54,239
i'm saying here right if we're going to

3421
02:07:57,589 --> 02:07:56,079
argue we don't need to label people we

3422
02:07:58,709 --> 02:07:57,599
just need to sit like any other any

3423
02:08:01,109 --> 02:07:58,719
other

3424
02:08:03,189 --> 02:08:01,119
scientific research organization or or

3425
02:08:04,629 --> 02:08:03,199
or colleagues do they sit around they

3426
02:08:07,030 --> 02:08:04,639
argue evidence they don't argue

3427
02:08:08,870 --> 02:08:07,040
personalities they really don't argue

3428
02:08:11,109 --> 02:08:08,880
beliefs right it's all about the hard

3429
02:08:13,270 --> 02:08:11,119
evidence i think what complicates that

3430
02:08:15,350 --> 02:08:13,280
though is that some of these people

3431
02:08:17,350 --> 02:08:15,360
are putting labels on themselves i mean

3432
02:08:19,589 --> 02:08:17,360
someone in some cases literally joining

3433
02:08:21,910 --> 02:08:19,599
clubs whether it's a skeptic

3434
02:08:24,470 --> 02:08:21,920
organization and uh they're pretty much

3435
02:08:27,430 --> 02:08:24,480
uh married to the position then they're

3436
02:08:28,310 --> 02:08:27,440
not even examining uh evidence well i

3437
02:08:30,709 --> 02:08:28,320
mean

3438
02:08:32,950 --> 02:08:30,719
literally examining but but uh their

3439
02:08:34,950 --> 02:08:32,960
their mind is closed because uh they

3440
02:08:37,350 --> 02:08:34,960
basically have a political party sign

3441
02:08:38,550 --> 02:08:37,360
over their head well i remember someone

3442
02:08:41,669 --> 02:08:38,560
once said

3443
02:08:44,310 --> 02:08:41,679
the ufo field is toxic

3444
02:08:46,390 --> 02:08:44,320
so james you go along with that

3445
02:08:48,950 --> 02:08:46,400
i absolutely agree with that it's in

3446
02:08:51,589 --> 02:08:48,960
fact it's so toxic it what prompted me

3447
02:08:53,270 --> 02:08:51,599
to leave mufon resign

3448
02:08:55,270 --> 02:08:53,280
actually before resigning i left the i

3449
02:08:57,669 --> 02:08:55,280
would already give him my notice because

3450
02:08:59,669 --> 02:08:57,679
i found the field to be so toxic that it

3451
02:09:02,229 --> 02:08:59,679
was disrupting my research

3452
02:09:03,589 --> 02:09:02,239
i couldn't focus with all of this noise

3453
02:09:04,629 --> 02:09:03,599
so i thought you know what i got to get

3454
02:09:06,229 --> 02:09:04,639
out there

3455
02:09:08,149 --> 02:09:06,239
where i can breathe the fresh air and

3456
02:09:10,790 --> 02:09:08,159
whether it's calm and i can just sit

3457
02:09:13,830 --> 02:09:10,800
down and look at the evidence myself and

3458
02:09:14,709 --> 02:09:13,840
do my own research independent of all of

3459
02:09:19,910 --> 02:09:14,719
this

3460
02:09:21,669 --> 02:09:19,920
of these you know folks with with

3461
02:09:23,750 --> 02:09:21,679
different agendas

3462
02:09:25,750 --> 02:09:23,760
and and really just to try to focus on

3463
02:09:28,390 --> 02:09:25,760
what i would like to do which is to do

3464
02:09:30,790 --> 02:09:28,400
the hardcore documentary research

3465
02:09:32,550 --> 02:09:30,800
this uh constance had some comments i

3466
02:09:35,350 --> 02:09:32,560
think she was one of your uh your

3467
02:09:37,990 --> 02:09:35,360
critics on the the forum and she talked

3468
02:09:40,390 --> 02:09:38,000
about reading uh the uh the part where

3469
02:09:43,750 --> 02:09:40,400
you had your uh your post uh

3470
02:09:45,830 --> 02:09:43,760
uh the what was called uh what's next uh

3471
02:09:47,270 --> 02:09:45,840
mufon book burning when they censored

3472
02:09:49,030 --> 02:09:47,280
your your post

3473
02:09:50,950 --> 02:09:49,040
and she said that's not good there's a

3474
02:09:52,870 --> 02:09:50,960
history there for sure and maybe no way

3475
02:09:54,790 --> 02:09:52,880
of finding out what happened and she

3476
02:09:56,390 --> 02:09:54,800
thinks it's something of a

3477
02:09:58,870 --> 02:09:56,400
he said she said

3478
02:10:01,189 --> 02:09:58,880
um and and that there's a grudge that

3479
02:10:03,669 --> 02:10:01,199
you have a grudge with mufon

3480
02:10:05,510 --> 02:10:03,679
you seem to be saying

3481
02:10:08,310 --> 02:10:05,520
neither mufon or anyone else in the

3482
02:10:09,510 --> 02:10:08,320
field can be trusted except perhaps you

3483
02:10:11,750 --> 02:10:09,520
that she

3484
02:10:14,069 --> 02:10:11,760
emphasizes that if that's not what you

3485
02:10:15,350 --> 02:10:14,079
meant to say who are the researchers you

3486
02:10:16,870 --> 02:10:15,360
do trust

3487
02:10:19,030 --> 02:10:16,880
past and present

3488
02:10:27,189 --> 02:10:19,040
let's have that question held over

3489
02:10:32,870 --> 02:10:29,430
free from the shackles of corporate

3490
02:10:34,709 --> 02:10:32,880
america we're the place for independent

3491
02:10:35,510 --> 02:10:34,719
thinkers g

3492
02:10:36,870 --> 02:10:35,520
c

3493
02:10:55,830 --> 02:10:36,880
n

3494
02:10:58,229 --> 02:10:55,840
could use it for slideshows you could

3495
02:11:00,709 --> 02:10:58,239
use it to import images from digital

3496
02:11:02,709 --> 02:11:00,719
cameras or from scanners need to do some

3497
02:11:05,270 --> 02:11:02,719
image editing you can do that too in

3498
02:11:07,830 --> 02:11:05,280
graphic inverter also print catalogs

3499
02:11:10,229 --> 02:11:07,840
convert from so many formats i can't

3500
02:11:12,550 --> 02:11:10,239
even list them download now to see if

3501
02:11:15,589 --> 02:11:12,560
graphic inverter is good for you like

3502
02:11:17,589 --> 02:11:15,599
one and a half million other users guess

3503
02:11:20,229 --> 02:11:17,599
what you could save money when you buy

3504
02:11:22,950 --> 02:11:20,239
graphic inverter use the coupon code

3505
02:11:25,030 --> 02:11:22,960
night owl use the coupon code nighthow

3506
02:11:27,589 --> 02:11:25,040
to get a special price for graphic

3507
02:11:31,950 --> 02:11:27,599
inverter go to lemkesoft.com

3508
02:11:35,430 --> 02:11:31,960
that's l e m k e soft dot com

3509
02:11:38,390 --> 02:11:35,440
lemkesoft.com l e m k e

3510
02:11:40,069 --> 02:11:38,400
soft.com

3511
02:11:41,589 --> 02:11:40,079
it's no secret that government and big

3512
02:11:43,270 --> 02:11:41,599
business buy in bulk and get huge

3513
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3514
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3516
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3520
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3521
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3522
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3524
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3525
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3526
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hi this is larry smith sometimes bad

3527
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things happen to good people when the

3528
02:12:15,109 --> 02:12:13,679
cleaners ruined some special clothing

3529
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all they could do was show us a sign

3530
02:12:18,390 --> 02:12:17,119
that said they weren't responsible but

3531
02:12:20,390 --> 02:12:18,400
when they got the letter from one of our

3532
02:12:21,990 --> 02:12:20,400
legal shield attorneys he probably gave

3533
02:12:24,470 --> 02:12:22,000
us a check for eleven hundred and fifty

3534
02:12:26,390 --> 02:12:24,480
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3535
02:12:27,310 --> 02:12:26,400
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3536
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3537
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lsprotection.com or call eight five five

3538
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3539
02:12:35,030 --> 02:12:33,760
five three

3540
02:12:37,350 --> 02:12:35,040
seven

3541
02:12:38,950 --> 02:12:37,360
results will vary from case to case as

3542
02:12:41,350 --> 02:12:38,960
if chlorine in our water weren't bad

3543
02:12:43,430 --> 02:12:41,360
enough now they're adding ammonia

3544
02:12:45,270 --> 02:12:43,440
it's true some municipalities are now

3545
02:12:47,430 --> 02:12:45,280
adding ammonia plus chlorine to your

3546
02:12:48,550 --> 02:12:47,440
water supply it's a disinfectant called

3547
02:12:50,390 --> 02:12:48,560
chloramine

3548
02:12:52,550 --> 02:12:50,400
but with a trusted big berkey water

3549
02:12:55,830 --> 02:12:52,560
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3550
02:12:57,990 --> 02:12:55,840
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3551
02:13:01,109 --> 02:12:58,000
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3552
02:13:03,910 --> 02:13:01,119
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3553
02:13:06,390 --> 02:13:03,920
pesticides bacteria and viruses all

3554
02:13:08,310 --> 02:13:06,400
forms of fluoride and much more big

3555
02:13:10,629 --> 02:13:08,320
berkey water filters are the original

3556
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and most trusted on the market the gold

3557
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3558
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filters last for years at less than two

3559
02:13:20,149 --> 02:13:18,239
cents per gallon big berkey the one

3560
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that's powerful enough to purify

3561
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3562
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3563
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3564
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3565
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3566
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the love of clean water

3567
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here is what one doctor has to say about

3568
02:13:47,990 --> 02:13:46,000
extendovite i would like to thank you

3569
02:13:49,430 --> 02:13:48,000
don for making my job so much easier

3570
02:13:51,030 --> 02:13:49,440
because your product just make it so

3571
02:13:52,790 --> 02:13:51,040
simple right to fool around with a lot

3572
02:13:54,470 --> 02:13:52,800
of exotic things that don't work we can

3573
02:13:56,229 --> 02:13:54,480
just put them on your product and things

3574
02:13:58,790 --> 02:13:56,239
start to work almost right away i've had

3575
02:14:00,550 --> 02:13:58,800
dozens of dozens of patients with heart

3576
02:14:02,550 --> 02:14:00,560
problems who have corrected them and

3577
02:14:04,550 --> 02:14:02,560
what it's doing there's so much garlic

3578
02:14:06,310 --> 02:14:04,560
in there that has a yeast killing effect

3579
02:14:08,390 --> 02:14:06,320
the yeast is a big problem in the gut

3580
02:14:10,229 --> 02:14:08,400
pushes the liver heart it also has metal

3581
02:14:11,750 --> 02:14:10,239
chelating effect and most of the other

3582
02:14:13,589 --> 02:14:11,760
herbs in there i find that strengthen

3583
02:14:15,669 --> 02:14:13,599
the arteries they help to neutralize

3584
02:14:17,589 --> 02:14:15,679
free radicals you're rambling close to

3585
02:14:19,350 --> 02:14:17,599
what we do in our program as you can get

3586
02:14:21,430 --> 02:14:19,360
as far as one supplement goes it's

3587
02:14:23,510 --> 02:14:21,440
working on the the gut it's working on

3588
02:14:25,270 --> 02:14:23,520
the liver it's working on the arteries

3589
02:14:29,669 --> 02:14:25,280
what more can you ask for to get your

3590
02:14:44,629 --> 02:14:31,120
or visit heartrob.com

3591
02:14:50,470 --> 02:14:46,709
hi it's grant cameron from presidential

3592
02:14:57,350 --> 02:14:50,480
ufo.com you're listening to the paracast

3593
02:15:00,950 --> 02:14:59,750
so constance a regular participant of

3594
02:15:03,430 --> 02:15:00,960
our forums

3595
02:15:05,270 --> 02:15:03,440
has made some critical comments of james

3596
02:15:06,310 --> 02:15:05,280
carry on our guest on the power cast

3597
02:15:09,030 --> 02:15:06,320
this week

3598
02:15:11,189 --> 02:15:09,040
with kurt collins and gene steinberg

3599
02:15:13,189 --> 02:15:11,199
james what's your response well actually

3600
02:15:15,910 --> 02:15:13,199
i did respond to her post and that is i

3601
02:15:18,229 --> 02:15:15,920
make no bones about my past with mufon

3602
02:15:20,310 --> 02:15:18,239
or with ufology sure there's a history

3603
02:15:21,990 --> 02:15:20,320
there there's a pass there and and

3604
02:15:23,910 --> 02:15:22,000
anybody who you know has been in the

3605
02:15:25,430 --> 02:15:23,920
field long enough will know that this is

3606
02:15:28,149 --> 02:15:25,440
not about a grudge

3607
02:15:29,750 --> 02:15:28,159
this is about one thing and that is what

3608
02:15:32,550 --> 02:15:29,760
is truth

3609
02:15:34,470 --> 02:15:32,560
i said this a number of times if you are

3610
02:15:36,790 --> 02:15:34,480
in this field and you have a sincere

3611
02:15:38,310 --> 02:15:36,800
interest for truth a sincere interest to

3612
02:15:40,790 --> 02:15:38,320
pursue truth

3613
02:15:42,870 --> 02:15:40,800
then the bottom line is you you're going

3614
02:15:44,950 --> 02:15:42,880
to have to decide whether you're going

3615
02:15:45,910 --> 02:15:44,960
to truly investigate and search for that

3616
02:15:47,189 --> 02:15:45,920
truth or you're simply going to

3617
02:15:49,510 --> 02:15:47,199
perpetuate

3618
02:15:51,510 --> 02:15:49,520
all of the mythology that's out there so

3619
02:15:52,870 --> 02:15:51,520
my grudge right now with mufon has more

3620
02:15:54,950 --> 02:15:52,880
to do with how

3621
02:15:56,709 --> 02:15:54,960
their reputation has been sullied by

3622
02:15:58,390 --> 02:15:56,719
this this show that they've they've come

3623
02:16:00,709 --> 02:15:58,400
out with because

3624
02:16:02,950 --> 02:16:00,719
they've basically sold themselves out

3625
02:16:05,510 --> 02:16:02,960
from a scientific ufo organization to

3626
02:16:07,270 --> 02:16:05,520
just being mythology promoters

3627
02:16:09,109 --> 02:16:07,280
and to being the uh this having this

3628
02:16:10,709 --> 02:16:09,119
illicit affair with with the with the

3629
02:16:12,870 --> 02:16:10,719
media companies and with the with the

3630
02:16:14,790 --> 02:16:12,880
history with the history channel so what

3631
02:16:17,669 --> 02:16:14,800
i'm saying is that you know how can

3632
02:16:19,750 --> 02:16:17,679
anybody have a can pursue truth when

3633
02:16:21,669 --> 02:16:19,760
there are all of these different you

3634
02:16:22,950 --> 02:16:21,679
know so-called promoters of truth mufon

3635
02:16:24,950 --> 02:16:22,960
being the one that was supposed to be

3636
02:16:26,709 --> 02:16:24,960
scientifically minded and they've turned

3637
02:16:28,629 --> 02:16:26,719
around and they're completely the

3638
02:16:30,950 --> 02:16:28,639
opposite of what they claim themselves

3639
02:16:32,629 --> 02:16:30,960
to be they're anti-science there is no

3640
02:16:33,429 --> 02:16:32,639
science in the organization

3641
02:16:34,790 --> 02:16:33,439
you're going to have a hard time

3642
02:16:37,750 --> 02:16:34,800
convincing me that they're doing any

3643
02:16:39,910 --> 02:16:37,760
science so that's my grudge right that's

3644
02:16:42,549 --> 02:16:39,920
what that's the thing that that makes me

3645
02:16:44,309 --> 02:16:42,559
upset about mufon is how far they've

3646
02:16:45,830 --> 02:16:44,319
fallen from the path

3647
02:16:47,589 --> 02:16:45,840
trying to find something that that

3648
02:16:50,230 --> 02:16:47,599
connects with uh with what we're talking

3649
02:16:51,990 --> 02:16:50,240
about here this is one from sue she's

3650
02:16:56,870 --> 02:16:52,000
actually got a question that that's more

3651
02:16:58,790 --> 02:16:56,880
about ufology in general and um she says

3652
02:17:00,709 --> 02:16:58,800
how do you build social institutions of

3653
02:17:03,190 --> 02:17:00,719
scientific study around a question that

3654
02:17:05,270 --> 02:17:03,200
may not have a scientific answer where

3655
02:17:07,030 --> 02:17:05,280
there are traditions and institutional

3656
02:17:09,270 --> 02:17:07,040
infrastructures of methodology

3657
02:17:11,429 --> 02:17:09,280
transparency data sharing

3658
02:17:14,709 --> 02:17:11,439
organizational accountability and

3659
02:17:17,270 --> 02:17:14,719
protocols for human subjects protection

3660
02:17:19,110 --> 02:17:17,280
karen makes substantive arguments that

3661
02:17:21,190 --> 02:17:19,120
raise questions along these lines i

3662
02:17:24,150 --> 02:17:21,200
think we've touched on this some but uh

3663
02:17:27,190 --> 02:17:24,160
does that does that uh um prompt you to

3664
02:17:28,790 --> 02:17:27,200
make comments on uh anything that that's

3665
02:17:30,309 --> 02:17:28,800
being done wrong you think should be

3666
02:17:32,950 --> 02:17:30,319
changed

3667
02:17:35,190 --> 02:17:32,960
i'm sure i i think that i mean i think

3668
02:17:38,790 --> 02:17:35,200
that those are some very valid points

3669
02:17:40,709 --> 02:17:38,800
how do we truly investigate this subject

3670
02:17:42,790 --> 02:17:40,719
what are the standards of research what

3671
02:17:44,309 --> 02:17:42,800
are the standards of evidence

3672
02:17:46,150 --> 02:17:44,319
what are the standards of professional

3673
02:17:47,830 --> 02:17:46,160
conduct those are all things that

3674
02:17:48,950 --> 02:17:47,840
haven't even been addressed after all of

3675
02:17:50,790 --> 02:17:48,960
these years

3676
02:17:53,669 --> 02:17:50,800
so until someone can sit down with all

3677
02:17:55,589 --> 02:17:53,679
seriousness and address those questions

3678
02:17:56,629 --> 02:17:55,599
then truly scientific research cannot

3679
02:17:59,669 --> 02:17:56,639
happen

3680
02:18:02,230 --> 02:17:59,679
and and so you know these these ad hoc

3681
02:18:04,950 --> 02:18:02,240
experiments these ad hoc research

3682
02:18:06,629 --> 02:18:04,960
endeavors um you know this ad hoc

3683
02:18:07,910 --> 02:18:06,639
involvement of you know alleged

3684
02:18:11,110 --> 02:18:07,920
scientists

3685
02:18:14,950 --> 02:18:11,120
it simply cannot produce good results

3686
02:18:16,709 --> 02:18:14,960
until ufology as a field sits down and

3687
02:18:19,190 --> 02:18:16,719
and tries to come up with some of these

3688
02:18:20,950 --> 02:18:19,200
some some of these very basic answers to

3689
02:18:22,709 --> 02:18:20,960
how they're going to self-govern

3690
02:18:24,870 --> 02:18:22,719
themselves and how they're going to

3691
02:18:27,589 --> 02:18:24,880
govern research in this field

3692
02:18:29,589 --> 02:18:27,599
if mufon is a wrong place to go for

3693
02:18:31,030 --> 02:18:29,599
solid ufo research is there any

3694
02:18:33,110 --> 02:18:31,040
organization

3695
02:18:35,190 --> 02:18:33,120
in the united states of america that you

3696
02:18:39,910 --> 02:18:35,200
would go to

3697
02:18:43,110 --> 02:18:41,429
no and i'm saying that in all

3698
02:18:45,589 --> 02:18:43,120
seriousness because

3699
02:18:49,830 --> 02:18:45,599
like i said we cannot sort

3700
02:18:51,349 --> 02:18:49,840
uh real from from you know uh just uh

3701
02:18:53,190 --> 02:18:51,359
you know deception

3702
02:18:55,190 --> 02:18:53,200
until we have a way of understanding the

3703
02:18:56,950 --> 02:18:55,200
role of the role of of human deception

3704
02:18:59,030 --> 02:18:56,960
in this field and we can the role of

3705
02:19:00,549 --> 02:18:59,040
government in this field so obviously

3706
02:19:01,830 --> 02:19:00,559
the intelligence agencies they know

3707
02:19:03,830 --> 02:19:01,840
their own role

3708
02:19:05,669 --> 02:19:03,840
their their they have they they know

3709
02:19:06,870 --> 02:19:05,679
what part is theirs it's as simple as

3710
02:19:08,629 --> 02:19:06,880
that

3711
02:19:09,589 --> 02:19:08,639
and they know what part is not

3712
02:19:10,950 --> 02:19:09,599
so

3713
02:19:12,790 --> 02:19:10,960
you know unless they come forward and

3714
02:19:14,549 --> 02:19:12,800
say hey guys you know all these years

3715
02:19:16,389 --> 02:19:14,559
we've not only you know pulled the

3716
02:19:17,990 --> 02:19:16,399
wolves over over your eyes but we this

3717
02:19:19,910 --> 02:19:18,000
is our case and this is our case and

3718
02:19:22,870 --> 02:19:19,920
this is our case it's going to be very

3719
02:19:24,790 --> 02:19:22,880
difficult to try to say any or any

3720
02:19:26,469 --> 02:19:24,800
organization to be able to prove

3721
02:19:27,990 --> 02:19:26,479
or or come up with some sort of research

3722
02:19:30,389 --> 02:19:28,000
methodology that's going to that's

3723
02:19:32,629 --> 02:19:30,399
actually going to produce results

3724
02:19:35,030 --> 02:19:32,639
well you were talking about

3725
02:19:37,349 --> 02:19:35,040
several things about the data that's

3726
02:19:39,270 --> 02:19:37,359
been collected and that it's not being

3727
02:19:41,190 --> 02:19:39,280
used what do you think the potential for

3728
02:19:42,309 --> 02:19:41,200
using that data uh

3729
02:19:46,629 --> 02:19:42,319
uh

3730
02:19:48,469 --> 02:19:46,639
project is another thing entirely we

3731
02:19:49,590 --> 02:19:48,479
don't know what that'll show but do you

3732
02:19:51,590 --> 02:19:49,600
think that there's some useful

3733
02:19:54,630 --> 02:19:51,600
information that could come from

3734
02:19:58,150 --> 02:19:54,640
from a proper and aggressive analysis of

3735
02:20:01,830 --> 02:19:59,590
i think there's potential there but i

3736
02:20:04,630 --> 02:20:01,840
think it would have to be something that

3737
02:20:07,349 --> 02:20:04,640
would be mostly based on statistics

3738
02:20:09,910 --> 02:20:07,359
uh and doing statistical studies of

3739
02:20:11,910 --> 02:20:09,920
different events and different cases

3740
02:20:14,150 --> 02:20:11,920
um and and just trying to come up with

3741
02:20:16,150 --> 02:20:14,160
some sort of baseline

3742
02:20:18,870 --> 02:20:16,160
for for what for what activity has been

3743
02:20:20,469 --> 02:20:18,880
observed i mean i think that that is

3744
02:20:22,630 --> 02:20:20,479
good information i'm not so sure it's

3745
02:20:24,870 --> 02:20:22,640
going to provide answers but i think it

3746
02:20:27,910 --> 02:20:24,880
would provide a good baseline for for

3747
02:20:31,990 --> 02:20:30,150
and what about the accessibility i mean

3748
02:20:36,150 --> 02:20:32,000
because it's it sounds like you have a

3749
02:20:39,670 --> 02:20:36,160
big complaint about about the the the uh

3750
02:20:40,870 --> 02:20:39,680
inaccessibility of the case files um

3751
02:20:42,950 --> 02:20:40,880
and

3752
02:20:45,110 --> 02:20:42,960
well i guess i'm asking what good are

3753
02:20:46,150 --> 02:20:45,120
they

3754
02:20:47,750 --> 02:20:46,160
well you know what's interesting is when

3755
02:20:49,830 --> 02:20:47,760
you watch hanger one they show this big

3756
02:20:51,510 --> 02:20:49,840
warehouse with all of their files and

3757
02:20:52,790 --> 02:20:51,520
carts wheeling up and down the aisle as

3758
02:20:55,030 --> 02:20:52,800
they gather

3759
02:20:57,429 --> 02:20:55,040
different documents to to portray on the

3760
02:20:59,110 --> 02:20:57,439
show uh and to me it reminds me of that

3761
02:21:01,110 --> 02:20:59,120
big warehouse and and raiders of the

3762
02:21:03,990 --> 02:21:01,120
lost ark you know where they card they

3763
02:21:06,469 --> 02:21:04,000
put the ark in and it's lost forever

3764
02:21:07,590 --> 02:21:06,479
you know let's be honest here uh hanger

3765
02:21:11,750 --> 02:21:07,600
one

3766
02:21:13,190 --> 02:21:11,760
exist all of those case files are have

3767
02:21:15,030 --> 02:21:13,200
been scanned

3768
02:21:16,950 --> 02:21:15,040
um but they're sitting in my file

3769
02:21:19,429 --> 02:21:16,960
cabinet right here hanger one is in my

3770
02:21:20,870 --> 02:21:19,439
file cabinet so i have all the case

3771
02:21:22,950 --> 02:21:20,880
files here

3772
02:21:24,469 --> 02:21:22,960
everything mufon scanned or scanned all

3773
02:21:26,469 --> 02:21:24,479
their their paper case files over the

3774
02:21:29,590 --> 02:21:26,479
last 40-something years all of the new

3775
02:21:30,870 --> 02:21:29,600
data they collect is primarily online

3776
02:21:33,270 --> 02:21:30,880
i'm sure they're they're now collecting

3777
02:21:34,389 --> 02:21:33,280
a lot of it electronically so really the

3778
02:21:35,349 --> 02:21:34,399
all of the case files when we talk about

3779
02:21:36,870 --> 02:21:35,359
the case files we're talking about a

3780
02:21:38,070 --> 02:21:36,880
combination of historical data plus

3781
02:21:39,750 --> 02:21:38,080
current data

3782
02:21:41,429 --> 02:21:39,760
and that really should all be made

3783
02:21:43,670 --> 02:21:41,439
available publicly or to any any

3784
02:21:45,429 --> 02:21:43,680
researcher that that wants to use it

3785
02:21:47,510 --> 02:21:45,439
what's their excuse not to make it

3786
02:21:49,510 --> 02:21:47,520
available

3787
02:21:51,670 --> 02:21:49,520
i don't know if it's an excuse as much

3788
02:21:55,429 --> 02:21:51,680
as is they'll see it as a missed

3789
02:21:58,469 --> 02:21:55,439
opportunity for for revenue generation

3790
02:22:00,550 --> 02:21:58,479
so if we can find a way to monetize it

3791
02:22:03,110 --> 02:22:00,560
that makes it a commercial organization

3792
02:22:04,389 --> 02:22:03,120
not a research organization

3793
02:22:06,070 --> 02:22:04,399
correct

3794
02:22:08,150 --> 02:22:06,080
and you feel that's what mufon's trying

3795
02:22:09,429 --> 02:22:08,160
to be now in terms of their public

3796
02:22:11,670 --> 02:22:09,439
events

3797
02:22:15,190 --> 02:22:11,680
i've noticed a tendency to get speakers

3798
02:22:16,070 --> 02:22:15,200
who are shall we say less credible but

3799
02:22:18,630 --> 02:22:16,080
maybe

3800
02:22:21,349 --> 02:22:18,640
more adept at attracting large crowds in

3801
02:22:23,349 --> 02:22:21,359
recent years so is that part of it that

3802
02:22:25,750 --> 02:22:23,359
in order for this organization to grow

3803
02:22:28,309 --> 02:22:25,760
and its membership is not really any

3804
02:22:31,030 --> 02:22:28,319
larger than it was many years ago they

3805
02:22:32,710 --> 02:22:31,040
have to go to extremes

3806
02:22:35,030 --> 02:22:32,720
well absolutely i mean if you look at

3807
02:22:37,429 --> 02:22:35,040
the you know who's a popular draw to a

3808
02:22:39,429 --> 02:22:37,439
conference uh we have stanton freeman we

3809
02:22:41,510 --> 02:22:39,439
have linda molten howe we have the same

3810
02:22:43,190 --> 02:22:41,520
old cast of characters that that make

3811
02:22:44,469 --> 02:22:43,200
the rounds of all these ufo conferences

3812
02:22:46,550 --> 02:22:44,479
because they have they have folks out

3813
02:22:48,150 --> 02:22:46,560
there that are fans of them and people

3814
02:22:50,550 --> 02:22:48,160
that like to come and hear them speak

3815
02:22:52,150 --> 02:22:50,560
that's great so that's great so you go

3816
02:22:53,429 --> 02:22:52,160
and you go to this mufon conference and

3817
02:22:55,429 --> 02:22:53,439
you hear the same thing that you've

3818
02:22:57,110 --> 02:22:55,439
heard over the last 10 years

3819
02:22:59,830 --> 02:22:57,120
where's the new research where were

3820
02:23:01,429 --> 02:22:59,840
these you know popular presenters

3821
02:23:03,270 --> 02:23:01,439
what are they doing lately besides

3822
02:23:05,830 --> 02:23:03,280
pushing their latest book

3823
02:23:08,309 --> 02:23:05,840
or pushing their latest website you know

3824
02:23:10,469 --> 02:23:08,319
it's it's really problematic because

3825
02:23:12,630 --> 02:23:10,479
a symposium like the mufon symposium is

3826
02:23:14,150 --> 02:23:12,640
supposed to be about research it's not

3827
02:23:15,190 --> 02:23:14,160
supposed to be about popularity it's not

3828
02:23:17,429 --> 02:23:15,200
trying to it's not supposed to be about

3829
02:23:19,429 --> 02:23:17,439
drawing crowds why should they care how

3830
02:23:21,429 --> 02:23:19,439
many people attend an event other than

3831
02:23:23,590 --> 02:23:21,439
generating revenue for them

3832
02:23:25,510 --> 02:23:23,600
so i think the bottom line is that a

3833
02:23:27,110 --> 02:23:25,520
symposium a scientific symposium should

3834
02:23:29,190 --> 02:23:27,120
be about quality research quality

3835
02:23:30,389 --> 02:23:29,200
presentation quality data

3836
02:23:33,429 --> 02:23:30,399
and you're not going to find that at a

3837
02:23:35,110 --> 02:23:33,439
mufon symposium well i was i was uh

3838
02:23:37,190 --> 02:23:35,120
collected several of the symposium

3839
02:23:39,030 --> 02:23:37,200
booklets you know many of the

3840
02:23:41,190 --> 02:23:39,040
the years that i missed

3841
02:23:43,110 --> 02:23:41,200
mostly looking for the articles and

3842
02:23:44,550 --> 02:23:43,120
presentations on the cash lantern case

3843
02:23:46,469 --> 02:23:44,560
and i was very

3844
02:23:49,110 --> 02:23:46,479
um very much impressed with the older

3845
02:23:50,150 --> 02:23:49,120
symposium booklets and it seemed that

3846
02:23:54,790 --> 02:23:50,160
there were

3847
02:23:55,990 --> 02:23:54,800
made based on case work and research and

3848
02:23:56,790 --> 02:23:56,000
papers

3849
02:23:59,110 --> 02:23:56,800
and

3850
02:24:01,670 --> 02:23:59,120
based on the lineup i see now it just

3851
02:24:02,870 --> 02:24:01,680
seems to be what you were saying a a

3852
02:24:05,590 --> 02:24:02,880
listing of

3853
02:24:07,910 --> 02:24:05,600
uh well quite often it's it's uh tv

3854
02:24:09,270 --> 02:24:07,920
favorites it's like having all the movie

3855
02:24:10,550 --> 02:24:09,280
stars there

3856
02:24:11,990 --> 02:24:10,560
and we're not going to worry about the

3857
02:24:13,590 --> 02:24:12,000
content we've got more to come with

3858
02:24:15,910 --> 02:24:13,600
james carry on

3859
02:24:19,430 --> 02:24:15,920
our guest co-host is kurt collins i'm

3860
02:24:26,870 --> 02:24:19,440
gene steinberg you're in the paracast

3861
02:24:31,190 --> 02:24:28,389
not just an alternative to the

3862
02:24:34,550 --> 02:24:31,200
mainstream media we're the premier

3863
02:24:36,950 --> 02:24:34,560
independent talk radio network we are

3864
02:24:39,030 --> 02:24:36,960
gcn

3865
02:24:41,349 --> 02:24:39,040
attack of the rockoids has been well

3866
02:24:42,950 --> 02:24:41,359
received by critics and readers alike

3867
02:24:44,309 --> 02:24:42,960
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

3868
02:24:46,309 --> 02:24:44,319
never forget

3869
02:24:48,710 --> 02:24:46,319
a former u s military intelligence

3870
02:24:51,270 --> 02:24:48,720
officer is haunted by intense dreams

3871
02:24:53,670 --> 02:24:51,280
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

3872
02:24:54,710 --> 02:24:53,680
help after a terrible battle in outer

3873
02:24:56,870 --> 02:24:54,720
space

3874
02:24:58,870 --> 02:24:56,880
but the dreams turn out to be true and

3875
02:25:01,590 --> 02:24:58,880
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

3876
02:25:04,469 --> 02:25:01,600
with a woman whose far away planet is

3877
02:25:06,710 --> 02:25:04,479
intent on destroying the earth and now

3878
02:25:09,349 --> 02:25:06,720
the gripping tale continues in the

3879
02:25:12,150 --> 02:25:09,359
coming of the protectors it's the second

3880
02:25:14,150 --> 02:25:12,160
book of the rockoids trilogy a galaxy

3881
02:25:16,710 --> 02:25:14,160
spanning adventure that pits our hapless

3882
02:25:18,870 --> 02:25:16,720
heroes against powerful fanatical

3883
02:25:21,349 --> 02:25:18,880
enemies that threaten the lives of

3884
02:25:23,990 --> 02:25:21,359
freedom-loving beings everywhere

3885
02:25:27,030 --> 02:25:24,000
attack of the rochoids and the coming of

3886
02:25:29,429 --> 02:25:27,040
the protectors classic science fiction

3887
02:25:32,630 --> 02:25:29,439
at its best available now

3888
02:25:36,469 --> 02:25:32,640
for more details visit rockoids.com

3889
02:25:38,230 --> 02:25:36,479
that's rock oids.com

3890
02:25:40,070 --> 02:25:38,240
by now you may have heard a bit about

3891
02:25:42,469 --> 02:25:40,080
bitcoins but did you know bitcoins are

3892
02:25:44,790 --> 02:25:42,479
now over an 8.5 billion dollar market

3893
02:25:47,190 --> 02:25:44,800
and did you know that over 65 000

3894
02:25:48,950 --> 02:25:47,200
businesses now accept bitcoins listen if

3895
02:25:50,309 --> 02:25:48,960
you're already earning bitcoins or

3896
02:25:53,270 --> 02:25:50,319
trying to make money in the bitcoin

3897
02:25:55,590 --> 02:25:53,280
market you've got to know bidbit.co why

3898
02:25:57,750 --> 02:25:55,600
because bidbit.co is where you can

3899
02:25:59,670 --> 02:25:57,760
easily receive bitcoin by selling and

3900
02:26:01,429 --> 02:25:59,680
auctioning off your own personal items

3901
02:26:03,510 --> 02:26:01,439
or promote business products and

3902
02:26:05,349 --> 02:26:03,520
services for bitcoins you heard right

3903
02:26:07,670 --> 02:26:05,359
whether personal or business you can now

3904
02:26:09,910 --> 02:26:07,680
buy sell and auction your product and

3905
02:26:12,630 --> 02:26:09,920
services quickly easily and securely for

3906
02:26:14,630 --> 02:26:12,640
bitcoin at bidbit.com the first and only

3907
02:26:16,790 --> 02:26:14,640
marketplace website to offer bidbit

3908
02:26:18,790 --> 02:26:16,800
escrow a proprietary technology which

3909
02:26:20,790 --> 02:26:18,800
give buyers and sellers security and

3910
02:26:22,790 --> 02:26:20,800
peace of mind because all transactions

3911
02:26:24,710 --> 02:26:22,800
are protected start today it's free to

3912
02:26:28,150 --> 02:26:24,720
join free to post free to auction and

3913
02:26:30,389 --> 02:26:28,160
free to bid at fitbit.com buy sell bid

3914
02:26:38,550 --> 02:26:30,399
or auction everything bitcoin that's

3915
02:26:42,550 --> 02:26:40,550
we live in a complicated society

3916
02:26:44,150 --> 02:26:42,560
stressful issues are always popping up

3917
02:26:45,990 --> 02:26:44,160
have you ever been treated unfairly by

3918
02:26:47,750 --> 02:26:46,000
someone have you ever been overcharged

3919
02:26:49,830 --> 02:26:47,760
for repair have you ever signed a

3920
02:26:52,070 --> 02:26:49,840
contract or a document worried about

3921
02:26:53,750 --> 02:26:52,080
identity theft how many times have you

3922
02:26:55,349 --> 02:26:53,760
been in those unique situations where

3923
02:26:57,270 --> 02:26:55,359
you just wanted to call an attorney to

3924
02:26:59,030 --> 02:26:57,280
find out if you're right or wrong or

3925
02:27:00,790 --> 02:26:59,040
what your legal rights are but every

3926
02:27:02,710 --> 02:27:00,800
time you think about calling an attorney

3927
02:27:05,030 --> 02:27:02,720
what do you think about first that's

3928
02:27:07,429 --> 02:27:05,040
right who do you call and how much will

3929
02:27:09,429 --> 02:27:07,439
it cost our friends at legalshield have

3930
02:27:12,389 --> 02:27:09,439
found a solution with a nationwide

3931
02:27:14,469 --> 02:27:12,399
network of 6900 attorneys who average 19

3932
02:27:16,469 --> 02:27:14,479
years of experience legal shields law

3933
02:27:18,469 --> 02:27:16,479
firms take over forty thousand calls per

3934
02:27:20,150 --> 02:27:18,479
week helping their members for less than

3935
02:27:21,990 --> 02:27:20,160
twenty dollars per month you can have

3936
02:27:24,070 --> 02:27:22,000
access to legal shield on everything

3937
02:27:26,670 --> 02:27:24,080
from the trivial to the traumatic let

3938
02:27:28,590 --> 02:27:26,680
legalshield stand up for your rights at

3939
02:27:31,030 --> 02:27:28,600
lsprotection.com that's

3940
02:27:33,270 --> 02:27:31,040
lsprotection.com or call eight five five

3941
02:27:35,510 --> 02:27:33,280
three four zero save eight five five

3942
02:27:37,990 --> 02:27:35,520
three four zero seventy two eighty three

3943
02:27:40,150 --> 02:27:38,000
results will vary from case to case

3944
02:27:42,309 --> 02:27:40,160
there's a man named dr joel wallach who

3945
02:27:44,550 --> 02:27:42,319
is anything but your typical doctor both

3946
02:27:47,349 --> 02:27:44,560
a veterinarian and naturopathic

3947
02:27:49,190 --> 02:27:47,359
physician doc asks why does the united

3948
02:27:51,830 --> 02:27:49,200
states spend more money on health care

3949
02:27:54,230 --> 02:27:51,840
by far and still rank 50th in health and

3950
02:27:55,990 --> 02:27:54,240
longevity worldwide he believes that

3951
02:27:58,469 --> 02:27:56,000
people should empower themselves with a

3952
02:27:59,910 --> 02:27:58,479
basic understanding of nutrition take

3953
02:28:01,990 --> 02:27:59,920
charge of their health and attain

3954
02:28:04,469 --> 02:28:02,000
optimal health and longevity through

3955
02:28:06,710 --> 02:28:04,479
nutrition not by toxic prescription

3956
02:28:09,670 --> 02:28:06,720
drugs that lead to side effects and more

3957
02:28:11,910 --> 02:28:09,680
toxic prescription drugs doc wallach's

3958
02:28:14,230 --> 02:28:11,920
message is resonating with an increasing

3959
02:28:16,230 --> 02:28:14,240
number of americans who are waking up to

3960
02:28:18,550 --> 02:28:16,240
all the big government big pharma and

3961
02:28:20,870 --> 02:28:18,560
big insurance manipulation of our health

3962
02:28:22,950 --> 02:28:20,880
care system i'm george dory and i like

3963
02:28:25,469 --> 02:28:22,960
what doc wallach is saying and doing to

3964
02:28:27,349 --> 02:28:25,479
enlighten people about health care visit

3965
02:28:29,510 --> 02:28:27,359
brightsidebend.com and listen to doc

3966
02:28:31,349 --> 02:28:29,520
wallach's deadly recipes lecture it

3967
02:28:34,190 --> 02:28:31,359
makes a lot of sense and i urge you to

3968
02:28:35,510 --> 02:28:34,200
join the brightside bend team go to

3969
02:28:40,020 --> 02:28:35,520
brightsidebend.com that's

3970
02:28:45,110 --> 02:28:42,550
[Music]

3971
02:28:47,110 --> 02:28:45,120
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

3972
02:28:49,560 --> 02:28:47,120
encyclopedia in other books you're

3973
02:28:59,270 --> 02:28:49,570
listening to the peercast

3974
02:29:01,590 --> 02:28:59,280
[Music]

3975
02:29:03,670 --> 02:29:01,600
james carrion is with us this week he's

3976
02:29:05,110 --> 02:29:03,680
author of the rosetta's deception and

3977
02:29:06,550 --> 02:29:05,120
the forthcoming

3978
02:29:09,750 --> 02:29:06,560
second edition

3979
02:29:12,870 --> 02:29:09,760
and also of the roswell deception james

3980
02:29:13,670 --> 02:29:12,880
when is the updated second edition

3981
02:29:15,990 --> 02:29:13,680
of

3982
02:29:18,230 --> 02:29:16,000
rosetta deception coming out well i'm

3983
02:29:20,150 --> 02:29:18,240
i'm working on it pretty steadily i'm

3984
02:29:22,309 --> 02:29:20,160
expecting i would think probably by the

3985
02:29:24,469 --> 02:29:22,319
end of summer it'll be released and the

3986
02:29:26,630 --> 02:29:24,479
roswell book uh roswell is still going

3987
02:29:28,790 --> 02:29:26,640
to be a ways off i have gathered a

3988
02:29:31,190 --> 02:29:28,800
significant amount of data but i i

3989
02:29:33,910 --> 02:29:31,200
haven't uh yet coalesced that into some

3990
02:29:35,990 --> 02:29:33,920
form that could even be called a book so

3991
02:29:37,910 --> 02:29:36,000
i would say that's that's still uh still

3992
02:29:39,990 --> 02:29:37,920
a future project maybe probably into the

3993
02:29:40,870 --> 02:29:40,000
end of next year is this

3994
02:29:42,230 --> 02:29:40,880
a

3995
02:29:44,309 --> 02:29:42,240
series

3996
02:29:47,910 --> 02:29:44,319
how how far are you going to continue

3997
02:29:50,710 --> 02:29:47,920
this is this a ongoing examination of

3998
02:29:52,230 --> 02:29:50,720
intelligence in the ufo field

3999
02:29:55,590 --> 02:29:52,240
i don't know if it's going to be ongoing

4000
02:29:59,190 --> 02:29:55,600
i think again i'm limiting my time frame

4001
02:30:01,990 --> 02:29:59,200
to between late 1945 and

4002
02:30:04,550 --> 02:30:02,000
summer of 1947. so it really just covers

4003
02:30:06,389 --> 02:30:04,560
those four major events and what my real

4004
02:30:09,030 --> 02:30:06,399
goal here is to show that

4005
02:30:11,270 --> 02:30:09,040
you know how deeply involved

4006
02:30:12,950 --> 02:30:11,280
and the intelligence agencies were and

4007
02:30:15,510 --> 02:30:12,960
for good reasons right because we had a

4008
02:30:17,270 --> 02:30:15,520
new enemy that we were facing we had

4009
02:30:19,429 --> 02:30:17,280
just come off world war ii millions of

4010
02:30:21,750 --> 02:30:19,439
people dead and the last thing we wanted

4011
02:30:23,110 --> 02:30:21,760
was another world conflict so i don't

4012
02:30:26,790 --> 02:30:23,120
think a lot of folks understand the

4013
02:30:28,550 --> 02:30:26,800
level of fear back in 1946 about whether

4014
02:30:31,190 --> 02:30:28,560
or not we were going to be thrown into a

4015
02:30:33,190 --> 02:30:31,200
third world war and that there were some

4016
02:30:34,790 --> 02:30:33,200
very intelligent people with some very

4017
02:30:36,150 --> 02:30:34,800
interesting skill sets

4018
02:30:38,550 --> 02:30:36,160
that put those

4019
02:30:39,910 --> 02:30:38,560
those skills together to avoid another

4020
02:30:41,990 --> 02:30:39,920
conflict and i think that's probably

4021
02:30:44,230 --> 02:30:42,000
what this is what this probably boils

4022
02:30:45,910 --> 02:30:44,240
down to so i'm going to focus in that

4023
02:30:48,870 --> 02:30:45,920
area i'm going to do as much research as

4024
02:30:51,110 --> 02:30:48,880
i can and and continue to document that

4025
02:30:53,429 --> 02:30:51,120
if i push past that boundary at a future

4026
02:30:56,230 --> 02:30:53,439
date i really can't say and remind us

4027
02:30:57,750 --> 02:30:56,240
again on the the roswell deception uh

4028
02:30:59,590 --> 02:30:57,760
other than roswell and i think you

4029
02:31:01,670 --> 02:30:59,600
mentioned mario mario island what are

4030
02:31:03,670 --> 02:31:01,680
the cases that you think connect with

4031
02:31:05,349 --> 02:31:03,680
that program in that era

4032
02:31:07,190 --> 02:31:05,359
for sure kenneth arnold i'm sure kenneth

4033
02:31:09,349 --> 02:31:07,200
arnold had a lot to do with it and of

4034
02:31:11,270 --> 02:31:09,359
course i i don't even i'm sure there's a

4035
02:31:13,670 --> 02:31:11,280
lot of little cases that pop up in the

4036
02:31:16,469 --> 02:31:13,680
media that are going to be related to to

4037
02:31:18,710 --> 02:31:16,479
those four cases uh that are that a lot

4038
02:31:20,389 --> 02:31:18,720
of them haven't gotten big press but i

4039
02:31:23,349 --> 02:31:20,399
will be including some of those as well

4040
02:31:26,230 --> 02:31:23,359
if there's any particular fact or

4041
02:31:28,550 --> 02:31:26,240
supposition about roswell that you think

4042
02:31:30,150 --> 02:31:28,560
has been misinterpreted

4043
02:31:32,070 --> 02:31:30,160
and i realize your research isn't

4044
02:31:34,710 --> 02:31:32,080
finished and this answer may change or

4045
02:31:36,550 --> 02:31:34,720
not be there what do you think it is

4046
02:31:38,550 --> 02:31:36,560
i think it really boils down to it being

4047
02:31:41,750 --> 02:31:38,560
a human deception operation

4048
02:31:43,349 --> 02:31:41,760
you know i think that those folks that

4049
02:31:46,389 --> 02:31:43,359
originally perpetrated that deception

4050
02:31:49,030 --> 02:31:46,399
are long gone but the modern day

4051
02:31:51,110 --> 02:31:49,040
versions of those characters

4052
02:31:53,830 --> 02:31:51,120
in the form of the intelligence agencies

4053
02:31:56,550 --> 02:31:53,840
have an ongoing interest to perpetuate

4054
02:31:59,190 --> 02:31:56,560
the myth around roswell it's been 40 you

4055
02:32:00,710 --> 02:31:59,200
know over over you know 70 years here

4056
02:32:02,710 --> 02:32:00,720
how do you come out to the public now

4057
02:32:05,110 --> 02:32:02,720
and tell them hey that was all based on

4058
02:32:07,190 --> 02:32:05,120
a lie it was based on a human deception

4059
02:32:09,270 --> 02:32:07,200
because what's happened since then

4060
02:32:11,750 --> 02:32:09,280
we have the air force coming out with

4061
02:32:14,150 --> 02:32:11,760
their studies saying roswell was crash

4062
02:32:15,910 --> 02:32:14,160
dummies roswell was uh

4063
02:32:16,870 --> 02:32:15,920
you know project mogul

4064
02:32:18,469 --> 02:32:16,880
so

4065
02:32:20,630 --> 02:32:18,479
who's going to be called the task for

4066
02:32:22,710 --> 02:32:20,640
that did the air force lie about that

4067
02:32:25,030 --> 02:32:22,720
were they really covering up what was

4068
02:32:26,870 --> 02:32:25,040
not an alien event but a human deception

4069
02:32:29,030 --> 02:32:26,880
operation i mean there's some there's

4070
02:32:30,950 --> 02:32:29,040
some big questions here that if if it

4071
02:32:32,230 --> 02:32:30,960
was revealed publicly if you know if

4072
02:32:34,070 --> 02:32:32,240
these folks actually came forward and

4073
02:32:35,750 --> 02:32:34,080
say hey you caught us you know we did

4074
02:32:37,750 --> 02:32:35,760
this this would trigger some major

4075
02:32:39,110 --> 02:32:37,760
congressional investigations

4076
02:32:40,389 --> 02:32:39,120
because what are we talking about here

4077
02:32:43,030 --> 02:32:40,399
we're talking about a whole

4078
02:32:43,910 --> 02:32:43,040
uh a whole modern myth that was created

4079
02:32:46,630 --> 02:32:43,920
here

4080
02:32:48,710 --> 02:32:46,640
uh a whole industry part of americana

4081
02:32:50,389 --> 02:32:48,720
that's you know as as much of part of us

4082
02:32:51,830 --> 02:32:50,399
as apple pie is

4083
02:32:54,230 --> 02:32:51,840
so there these are some serious

4084
02:32:56,870 --> 02:32:54,240
questions so i don't think that you know

4085
02:32:59,349 --> 02:32:56,880
ufo or or disclosure is going to come in

4086
02:33:01,670 --> 02:32:59,359
the form of we've been visited but i

4087
02:33:02,389 --> 02:33:01,680
think ufo disclosure would first be

4088
02:33:04,710 --> 02:33:02,399
hey

4089
02:33:06,230 --> 02:33:04,720
we perpetrated this as a deception

4090
02:33:08,870 --> 02:33:06,240
and uh you know there's going to be

4091
02:33:11,110 --> 02:33:08,880
fallout related to that another question

4092
02:33:12,790 --> 02:33:11,120
from one of our listeners uh open-minded

4093
02:33:14,710 --> 02:33:12,800
earthling actually had two questions

4094
02:33:16,389 --> 02:33:14,720
about the ufo stories appearing in

4095
02:33:18,550 --> 02:33:16,399
newspapers and

4096
02:33:20,550 --> 02:33:18,560
it seems to be asking about the

4097
02:33:22,950 --> 02:33:20,560
manipulation of them so

4098
02:33:26,070 --> 02:33:22,960
and i know you'd be familiar with uh

4099
02:33:27,990 --> 02:33:26,080
mockingbird which came later but uh so

4100
02:33:29,990 --> 02:33:28,000
what about the um what about the

4101
02:33:31,750 --> 02:33:30,000
intelligence community's manipulation of

4102
02:33:33,429 --> 02:33:31,760
the stories in the news

4103
02:33:35,510 --> 02:33:33,439
well there's been a long time

4104
02:33:37,429 --> 02:33:35,520
involvement a long time interest

4105
02:33:39,510 --> 02:33:37,439
and actually this this goes all the way

4106
02:33:40,870 --> 02:33:39,520
back to world war ii the british were

4107
02:33:42,469 --> 02:33:40,880
the first to

4108
02:33:44,230 --> 02:33:42,479
come up with these methods

4109
02:33:46,469 --> 02:33:44,240
and they used them extensively during

4110
02:33:48,309 --> 02:33:46,479
world war ii even on american soil if

4111
02:33:51,510 --> 02:33:48,319
you read my my book the roswell

4112
02:33:53,110 --> 02:33:51,520
deception i talk about uh the british

4113
02:33:55,830 --> 02:33:53,120
organization called pursue british

4114
02:33:57,910 --> 02:33:55,840
security coordination and how they

4115
02:34:00,150 --> 02:33:57,920
infiltrated american

4116
02:34:02,150 --> 02:34:00,160
political groups they infiltrated the

4117
02:34:04,070 --> 02:34:02,160
media when they wanted to push out a

4118
02:34:05,830 --> 02:34:04,080
rumor they had some very interesting

4119
02:34:07,190 --> 02:34:05,840
ways that they could do that using their

4120
02:34:09,910 --> 02:34:07,200
contacts

4121
02:34:12,070 --> 02:34:09,920
in newspapers and radio and so on they

4122
02:34:13,270 --> 02:34:12,080
were masters of manipulation and masters

4123
02:34:14,870 --> 02:34:13,280
of deception

4124
02:34:17,510 --> 02:34:14,880
and during that time obviously it was

4125
02:34:19,830 --> 02:34:17,520
because they were confronting a superior

4126
02:34:20,870 --> 02:34:19,840
military force in terms of the germans

4127
02:34:23,510 --> 02:34:20,880
they weren't threatened with their own

4128
02:34:25,349 --> 02:34:23,520
survival so it makes sense right when

4129
02:34:27,670 --> 02:34:25,359
you're really desperate uh you're going

4130
02:34:30,469 --> 02:34:27,680
to use desperate measures but they

4131
02:34:32,630 --> 02:34:30,479
fine-tune those those skills

4132
02:34:35,190 --> 02:34:32,640
and those of those are very much in use

4133
02:34:37,030 --> 02:34:35,200
today uh and i'm sure that media

4134
02:34:38,230 --> 02:34:37,040
manipulation is probably the first class

4135
02:34:40,389 --> 02:34:38,240
you take when you're when you're

4136
02:34:42,630 --> 02:34:40,399
recruited by the cia and do you feel

4137
02:34:45,270 --> 02:34:42,640
that i read this in history but i've

4138
02:34:47,270 --> 02:34:45,280
gotten gotten the feeling that that

4139
02:34:49,190 --> 02:34:47,280
either they recruited agents or maybe

4140
02:34:51,830 --> 02:34:49,200
agents were in place within the news

4141
02:34:54,150 --> 02:34:51,840
media and and i was wondering if you had

4142
02:34:57,429 --> 02:34:54,160
definite examples of that or

4143
02:34:59,429 --> 02:34:57,439
uh what your opinion on that was

4144
02:35:01,190 --> 02:34:59,439
sure well it's not just they didn't even

4145
02:35:02,309 --> 02:35:01,200
have to recruit some of these guys

4146
02:35:06,150 --> 02:35:02,319
remember we're talking about the cold

4147
02:35:08,309 --> 02:35:06,160
war and uh back in 1946 to 47 there were

4148
02:35:10,469 --> 02:35:08,319
some very staunch anti-communists that

4149
02:35:11,590 --> 02:35:10,479
were already in media and and they

4150
02:35:13,990 --> 02:35:11,600
volunteered their time and they

4151
02:35:16,309 --> 02:35:14,000
volunteer their newspapers so whatever

4152
02:35:17,190 --> 02:35:16,319
it took to to beat the communist so they

4153
02:35:18,550 --> 02:35:17,200
didn't even have to go out and actually

4154
02:35:20,790 --> 02:35:18,560
do a lot of recruiting in those early

4155
02:35:22,710 --> 02:35:20,800
days nowadays maybe it's a little

4156
02:35:24,950 --> 02:35:22,720
different but you know there's still a

4157
02:35:27,110 --> 02:35:24,960
lot of patriotic americans and i'm sure

4158
02:35:29,429 --> 02:35:27,120
that there are media moguls out there

4159
02:35:31,270 --> 02:35:29,439
that lend their hand uh because they see

4160
02:35:33,349 --> 02:35:31,280
it as their patriotic duty

4161
02:35:35,510 --> 02:35:33,359
now this is about the end of this

4162
02:35:38,070 --> 02:35:35,520
segment but i want to ask you quickly

4163
02:35:40,870 --> 02:35:38,080
here do we see today the same kind of

4164
02:35:42,710 --> 02:35:40,880
attitude that we had when everyone was a

4165
02:35:44,630 --> 02:35:42,720
communist who disagreed with you back in

4166
02:35:45,990 --> 02:35:44,640
the 50s

4167
02:35:47,190 --> 02:35:46,000
well you know interesting that's an

4168
02:35:49,110 --> 02:35:47,200
interesting question because we're

4169
02:35:51,190 --> 02:35:49,120
actually seeing if you read the news a

4170
02:35:53,190 --> 02:35:51,200
resurgence of some of that same cold war

4171
02:35:54,950 --> 02:35:53,200
mentality i mean think about what's

4172
02:35:56,230 --> 02:35:54,960
going on with russia and the ukraine and

4173
02:35:58,150 --> 02:35:56,240
the crimea

4174
02:36:00,309 --> 02:35:58,160
and you start seeing some interesting

4175
02:36:02,230 --> 02:36:00,319
things pop up in the news what all of a

4176
02:36:04,070 --> 02:36:02,240
sudden we have russian submarines that

4177
02:36:05,110 --> 02:36:04,080
mysteriously surface off the coast of

4178
02:36:07,670 --> 02:36:05,120
sweden

4179
02:36:10,550 --> 02:36:07,680
uh we have the shooting down of a

4180
02:36:12,710 --> 02:36:10,560
civilian airliner over the ukraine you

4181
02:36:15,990 --> 02:36:12,720
know what what prompted that

4182
02:36:17,349 --> 02:36:16,000
uh we're seeing this this tit-for-tat uh

4183
02:36:19,910 --> 02:36:17,359
in the media

4184
02:36:21,830 --> 02:36:19,920
as far as what russia's and russia's

4185
02:36:24,389 --> 02:36:21,840
intentions are are they part of the

4186
02:36:25,830 --> 02:36:24,399
world community or not uh or are they

4187
02:36:28,230 --> 02:36:25,840
becoming a foe that we have to worry

4188
02:36:30,469 --> 02:36:28,240
about again we just just look at all the

4189
02:36:32,870 --> 02:36:30,479
stories have come out with about russian

4190
02:36:34,710 --> 02:36:32,880
bombers that have to be escorted outside

4191
02:36:36,630 --> 02:36:34,720
of swedish airspace or

4192
02:36:38,870 --> 02:36:36,640
or uh you know these different borders

4193
02:36:41,510 --> 02:36:38,880
in europe and it starts to seem very

4194
02:36:43,349 --> 02:36:41,520
much like the cold war again so if

4195
02:36:45,590 --> 02:36:43,359
that's happening in the media there's a

4196
02:36:47,270 --> 02:36:45,600
lot going on in the intelligence field

4197
02:36:49,750 --> 02:36:47,280
that we don't know about uh there's a

4198
02:36:51,190 --> 02:36:49,760
lot of forces at play here james carrion

4199
02:36:53,510 --> 02:36:51,200
please tell our listeners where they can

4200
02:36:54,389 --> 02:36:53,520
find more of your work

4201
02:36:56,309 --> 02:36:54,399
sure

4202
02:36:59,990 --> 02:36:56,319
i have two blogs uh one's called

4203
02:37:03,990 --> 02:37:01,590
that's more gears towards somebody who

4204
02:37:05,110 --> 02:37:04,000
has an interest in ufology and my other

4205
02:37:07,590 --> 02:37:05,120
blog is called the

4206
02:37:09,110 --> 02:37:07,600
rosettadeception.blogspot.com

4207
02:37:10,150 --> 02:37:09,120
that has to do with more of the cold war

4208
02:37:11,670 --> 02:37:10,160
research

4209
02:37:14,150 --> 02:37:11,680
kurt do you have a website people can

4210
02:37:16,790 --> 02:37:14,160
check out blue blurry lines it's

4211
02:37:19,590 --> 02:37:16,800
primarily on the cache lantern case but

4212
02:37:21,830 --> 02:37:19,600
lots of other ufo cases

4213
02:37:23,910 --> 02:37:21,840
will be found there and of course uh do

4214
02:37:25,990 --> 02:37:23,920
uh occasional updates to the jim mosley

4215
02:37:27,830 --> 02:37:26,000
website jimmosley.com

4216
02:37:29,750 --> 02:37:27,840
you can find us on twitter where we're

4217
02:37:32,309 --> 02:37:29,760
known as the powercast look for the

4218
02:37:33,990 --> 02:37:32,319
powercast on twitter follow us neighbors

4219
02:37:35,830 --> 02:37:34,000
maybe we'll follow you

4220
02:37:38,309 --> 02:37:35,840
and we have that contest running to give

4221
02:37:40,550 --> 02:37:38,319
away a free one-year subscription to the

4222
02:37:43,030 --> 02:37:40,560
powercast plus it's where you get the

4223
02:37:45,349 --> 02:37:43,040
exclusive after the powercast podcast

4224
02:37:47,750 --> 02:37:45,359
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4225
02:37:49,070 --> 02:37:47,760
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4226
02:37:51,990 --> 02:37:49,080
check out

4227
02:37:53,510 --> 02:37:52,000
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4228
02:37:55,670 --> 02:37:53,520
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4229
02:37:56,469 --> 02:37:55,680
if you want to enter the contest go to

4230
02:37:58,389 --> 02:37:56,479
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4231
02:38:00,230 --> 02:37:58,399
thread at our forum at

4232
02:38:01,990 --> 02:38:00,240
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4233
02:38:03,510 --> 02:38:02,000
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4234
02:38:06,469 --> 02:38:03,520
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02:38:07,510 --> 02:38:06,479
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4236
02:38:08,550 --> 02:38:07,520
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02:38:13,030 --> 02:38:08,560
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02:38:17,750 --> 02:38:15,359
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4240
02:38:20,950 --> 02:38:17,760
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4241
02:38:24,389 --> 02:38:20,960
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4242
02:38:26,150 --> 02:38:24,399
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4243
02:38:27,190 --> 02:38:26,160
the tricksters chris will be back next

4244
02:38:28,870 --> 02:38:27,200
week

4245
02:38:29,670 --> 02:38:28,880
and we're going to have a lot more to

4246
02:38:31,670 --> 02:38:29,680
say

4247
02:38:33,990 --> 02:38:31,680
about this show and other stuff on after

4248
02:38:36,070 --> 02:38:34,000
the power cast this week

4249
02:38:37,750 --> 02:38:36,080
kurt thanks for filling in

4250
02:38:39,670 --> 02:38:37,760
thank you it's a pleasure to be here

4251
02:38:41,270 --> 02:38:39,680
it's uh i'm so sorry for the

4252
02:38:42,389 --> 02:38:41,280
circumstances but glad to be able to

4253
02:38:43,830 --> 02:38:42,399
help out

4254
02:38:54,710 --> 02:38:43,840
james thank you for joining us on the

4255
02:39:00,469 --> 02:38:57,590
the paracast featuring jean steinberg

4256
02:39:03,510 --> 02:39:00,479
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4257
02:39:05,190 --> 02:39:03,520
presentation of making the impossible

4258
02:39:09,349 --> 02:39:05,200
incorporated